The Real Risk of Cruising - Buy a Volvo

[stevensuf]

you know, ive read n read and looked and looked, fin keel, full keel ,skeg spade, cat , mono, etc then looked up some numbers on the arc site, from 86-2004 statistics

number of participating , 3234 yachts total
number lost? 5
roughly 1 in 641

number of participants approx 14,500
number of deaths.... 1
ie 1 in 14,500 so far ok, not great stats to work from but hey.

working out the hours one spends in a car to be about half ie 10 days a year, you are probably twice as likely to die in a car crash, why are we not all buying volvos? yes per hour spent in an ocean crossing in a yacht you are twice as likely to die in a car (sorry auto for the non euros) accident.

Yet no one mentions it here, but have countless discussions over the various safety aspects of different boats , yeah we all need steel hulled, self righting cats (am sure a huge airbag from the mast head and side airbags would self right, failing that a weather balloon attachment to self right), with no through hulls, full length keels and skeg hung rudders with unsinkable foam sections, fully fire proof and with nuclear and biological bunkers in case of ww3, fully emp shielded and air tight with full hydroponic systems in case the world should explode and we need food and oxygen, a zero point energy device with time travel would also be handy just in case. some 50 cal machine guns on the foredeck for pirates and some heat seeking missiles. twenty anchors and 2 miles of steel rode just in case i drag.

have i missed anything?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

have i missed anything?

Two hulls?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

have i missed anything?

Yes. On almost all threads about dangerous sailing is, for whatever reason there are lots of statements about how it really isnt that dangerous compared to lots of other thngs people without question (like driving).

Of course all bets are off for the the just plain stupid among us.

[stevensuf]

well we all know admirals like a level platform and want plenty of space, should we sack her we need deck space for that possie of baywatch babes that will inevitably be attracted to us

[Jim Cate]

Gee, when I read the title I thought you were referring to buying a Volvo-Penta -- arguably one of the biggest risks in cruising!

Yes, YMMV.

Jim

[Therapy]

The still?

[stevensuf]

To don,

Dont get me wrong, i worked on a fishing boat in the north sea of scotland for a while,a small boat only 35 feet, in the time i was there, 4 people died out of 200 in the fleet, bloody high numbers, but hey back then an epirb was unheard of, life jackets were never worn and you were lucky if you had a life raft on board, no mobiles , sat phones or gps, certainly the guys who done it in the 60s,70s and early 80s had balls.

I've done the equivalent of a double circumnavigation on water, though only 4000 miles on pleasure craft and am certainly learning about them, sails n yachts certainly aint the same as steaming boats as they were called. To be honest though, the numbers are very low for cruising yachts.

[pjop]

A time machine? Really Stevenstuf aren't you exaggerating a bit here. You did forget torpedos for the submarining pirates and a Phalanx system (50 cals are bit outdated, don't you think). Otherwise, I think you have it covered.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by stevensuf

...yeah we all need steel hulled, self righting cats (am sure a huge airbag from the mast head and side airbags would self right, failing that a weather balloon attachment to self right), with no through hulls, full length keels and skeg hung rudders with unsinkable foam sections, fully fire proof and with nuclear and biological bunkers in case of ww3, fully emp shielded and air tight with full hydroponic systems in case the world should explode and we need food and oxygen, a zero point energy device with time travel would also be handy just in case. some 50 cal machine guns on the foredeck for pirates and some heat seeking missiles. twenty anchors and 2 miles of steel rode just in case i drag.

have i missed anything?

Ok... so who let you onto my boat??

(Note to self... get security system upgrade...)

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Two hulls?

"...Yet no one mentions it here, but have countless discussions over the various safety aspects of different boats , yeah we all need steel hulled, self righting cats (am sure a huge airbag from the mast head and side airbags would self right, failing that a weather balloon attachment to self right), with no through hulls, full length keels and skeg hung rudders with unsinkable foam sections, fully fire proof and with nuclear and biological bunkers in case of ww3, fully emp shielded and air tight with full hydroponic systems in case the world should explode and we need food and oxygen, a zero point energy device with time travel would also be handy just in case. some 50 cal machine guns on the foredeck for pirates and some heat seeking missiles. twenty anchors and 2 miles of steel rode just in case i drag.

have i missed anything?"

You've had quite enough now DOJ. Off to bed

[maytrix]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Of course all bets are off for the the just plain stupid among us.

Fortunately on a boat, the stupid are probably more like to injure/kill themselves. On land however they are more likely to cause harm to someone else.

[Kettlewell]

The ARC is not representative of average cruising boats--much more dangerous in my opinion. Put together many boats all voyaging on a timetable and route set by someone else and you are asking for trouble in the first place, and then add in the fact that a lot of folks who take part in these long-distance cruising sort-of-races seem to be folks who have more money than experience and it gets worse. I used to work with the Caribbean 1500 folks and they did work very hard to keep everybody safe, but there was still tremendous pressure to leave on a schedule, despite the weather, and then there was the race aspect encouraging people to try to go fast or at least keep up, and then there was the fact that people seem to use these events to get "offshore experience." More representative is to look at the US Coast Guard statistics for deaths on sailboats over 30 feet, and they usually average less than 6 for the entire country for a year, and 90% of those are people falling overboard on perfect sunny days and drowning. The stuff we all fear: sinkings, storms, pirates, almost never happens. I still think we are in much greater danger driving to the boat for a weekend, or taking the dinghy ashore. Those are the things to worry about.

[chris_gee]

Taking the ARC safety record as representative of a random group of distance cruisers to lampoon safety issues is questionable to say the least.
For a start they have a required list of safety equipment together with a strongly recommended list but subject to mandatory inspection. They also have a full programme of safety lectures and demonstrations. That includes such things as a rigger suggesting twice daily rigging checks which helped one boat avoid a probable incident last year.
It also includes a mandatory pre qualifying distance cruise within the last year, a requirement that all gear be fully conversant with safety equipment. As well as being in a fleet they have individual position tracking, and are likely fully crewed v individuals or couples.
On last year's figures 7 boats appear to have been under 36' with another 6 at 36' under 6% in total. The majority appear to have been much bigger at a guess over 50'.
I suggest that a good proportion of ordinary cruisers and certainly wannabees, are less well prepared, briefed, crewed, and in smaller older boats. Many of course are well equipped and in some cases required to be.
Estimates of the casualty rates are difficult but others are far higher. The difficulty and cost of obtaining offshore insurance (incidentally requiring a crew of at least 3) is one indication that the risks are not trivial especially when you consider the actual passage times are only a small proportion.
That more boats are probably lost than people killed may well be a product of radios epirbs and rescue services. That doesn't mean that the loss of a vessel may not be a significant loss to most.
I don't think a comparison with those spending a lifetime at sea, or professionals is very helpful, to those who wish to learn how to cruise safely.

[reiner]

and I was worried about what my head does to me at times :-)

Originally Posted by stevensuf

you know, ive read n read and looked and looked, fin keel, full keel ,skeg spade, cat , mono, etc then looked up some numbers on the arc site, from 86-2004 statistics

number of participating , 3234 yachts total
number lost? 5
roughly 1 in 641

number of participants approx 14,500
number of deaths.... 1
ie 1 in 14,500 so far ok, not great stats to work from but hey.

working out the hours one spends in a car to be about half ie 10 days a year, you are probably twice as likely to die in a car crash, why are we not all buying volvos? yes per hour spent in an ocean crossing in a yacht you are twice as likely to die in a car (sorry auto for the non euros) accident.

Yet no one mentions it here, but have countless discussions over the various safety aspects of different boats , yeah we all need steel hulled, self righting cats (am sure a huge airbag from the mast head and side airbags would self right, failing that a weather balloon attachment to self right), with no through hulls, full length keels and skeg hung rudders with unsinkable foam sections, fully fire proof and with nuclear and biological bunkers in case of ww3, fully emp shielded and air tight with full hydroponic systems in case the world should explode and we need food and oxygen, a zero point energy device with time travel would also be handy just in case. some 50 cal machine guns on the foredeck for pirates and some heat seeking missiles. twenty anchors and 2 miles of steel rode just in case i drag.

have i missed anything?

[SaltyMonkey]

Kettlewell and chris_gee are correct. Its a bias sample. Also comparing cars and boats is flawed for obvious reasons.