Steve & Linda Dashew retire

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Bigmarv

Beauty and the eye of the beholder, but designing, promoting or buying leisure boats to cross oceans powered solely by fossil fuels was and is an affront to climate science. Good riddance.

Unless you are aboard an all wood boat with no engine, linen or cotton sails and all hemp rigging and wearing only leather and cotton and wool clothing and shoes, you are just like them. They just draw their line in a different place than you and aren't hypocrites about it.

Lord, deliver us from self-righteous holier-than-thou jerks whose response to someone else's good fortune is "Good riddance" because they were an "affront to climate science". Not to the earth, not to the people affected by sea level rise, not to any humans or animals at all, but to the abstract concept of climate science. That's just plain weird.......

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

...They just draw their line in a different place than you and aren't hypocrites about it.

... jerks whose response to someone else's good fortune is "Good riddance" because they were an "affront to climate science"....
......

Why is this forum so aggressive!!! Why when someone disagree with some other person opinion has to call him hypocrite, jerk or say that he is barking?!!!

Good riddance was not meant to you but to the Dashews. Good riddance means that someone "express relief at being free of an unwanted person"

In this case means that someone does not agree with their stance regarding long range cruising neither wants to see long rage pleasure cruising become done in motorboats due to ambiental impacts.

And good riddance the way I see it was not meant personally but regarding what they represent regarding cruising (boats with 12000 liter diesel tanks).

You may not agree but why the rudeness and the personal insults?!!!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

yeah, they probably said that when the Clipper ships gave way to, gasp!, steamboats and then fossil fueled freighters and tanker and containerships. :b iggrin:

In what regards pollution there is a big diference regarding what we have no means to avoid (yet) and what is avoidable.

And in what regards that there is a big diference between industrial and commercial activities and leisure ones.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Polux

In this case ["good riddance"] means that someone does not agree with their stance regarding long range cruising neither wants to see long rage pleasure cruising become done in motorboats due to ambiental impacts.

The phrase "good riddance" implies a whole lot more than that. It is a very insulting thing to say, and was obviously meant that way. The "aggressiveness" that you bemoan started with the person who said "good riddance," not with the responses to it.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

The phrase "good riddance" implies a whole lot more than that. It is a very insulting thing to say, and was obviously meant that way. The "aggressiveness" that you bemoan started with the person who said "good riddance," not with the responses to it.

I don't think so. There is no insult there, just relieve for something he dislikes to be gone and clearly he was not referring to the Dashew personally but in what regards what they represent today, namely long range cruising on motorboats. He was expressing his opinion without insulting nobody.

Regarding what good riddance means I don't see it implying more than what I have said (Google meaning for the phrase). The other dictionaries give it the same meaning.

the act or fact of clearing away or out, as anything undesirable.
Good riddance | Define Good riddance at Dictionary.com

You say 'good riddance' to indicate that you are pleased that someone has left or that something has gone.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di.../good-riddance

An expression used when one is pleased that someone or something is leaving or stopping.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/good+riddance

I am happy that someone or something is gone
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pt/.../good-riddance

said to express relief at being free of an unwanted person or thing.

Google.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Polux

Why is this forum so aggressive!!! Why when someone disagree with some other person opinion has to call him hypocrite, jerk or say that he is barking?!!!

Good riddance was not meant to you but to the Dashews. Good riddance means that someone "express relief at being free of an unwanted person"

In this case means that someone does not agree with their stance regarding long range cruising neither wants to see long rage pleasure cruising become done in motorboats due to ambiental impacts.

And good riddance the way I see it was not meant personally but regarding what they represent regarding cruising (boats with 12000 liter diesel tanks).

You may not agree but why the rudeness and the personal insults?!!!

What a snowflake!

You enter with insults and condemnation of two individuals who have been lucky enough and hard working enough to have successfully survived a life in boating long enough to retire and you exit with "Good riddance". And now you whine when people mirror your rudeness.....?

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't think so. There is no insult there, just relieve for something he dislikes to be gone and clearly he was not referring to the Dashew personally but in what regards what they represent today, namely long range cruising on motorboats. He was expressing his opinion without insulting nobody.

Regarding what good riddance means I don't see it implying more than what I have said (Google meaning for the phrase). The other dictionaries give it the same meaning.

the act or fact of clearing away or out, as anything undesirable.
Good riddance | Define Good riddance at Dictionary.com

You say 'good riddance' to indicate that you are pleased that someone has left or that something has gone.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di.../good-riddance

An expression used when one is pleased that someone or something is leaving or stopping.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/good+riddance

I am happy that someone or something is gone
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pt/.../good-riddance

said to express relief at being free of an unwanted person or thing.

Google.

In American English, the complete phrase is: "Good riddance to bad rubbish" and is considered to be almost fightin' words in some places. In any case, what was the purpose of the post in the first place, but to troll everyone else who picked up this thread and to rain on someone else's parade?

[Bigmarv]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

In American English, the complete phrase is: "Good riddance to bad rubbish" and is considered to be almost fightin' words in some places. In any case, what was the purpose of the post in the first place, but to troll everyone else who picked up this thread and to rain on someone else's parade?

Hilarious. But if it saves you all time, I was meaning good riddance to their business which promoted enormous carbon footprints that only an idiot could think was ok.

Pretty bizarre crowd to be offended by this being pointed out, but not be offended by people behaving so selfishly - motoring to see the very natural wonders that they are helping destroy. People are going to die because of this, and species become extinct.

Read the science. If you're not scared you didn't understand it. If you think it's ok to build or buy one of those motoryachts, you didn't understand it.

You could do something about that, or you could all be offended by two words in a post.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

What a snowflake!

You enter with insults and condemnation of two individuals who have been lucky enough and hard working enough to have successfully survived a life in boating long enough to retire and you exit with "Good riddance". And now you whine when people mirror your rudeness.....?

You are confusing me with someone else. I did not wish them good riddance, did not have condemn anybody much less insult anybody or even have been rude.

If you think I have been rude or have insulted somebody, please quote me on that.

The fact that I don't believe that one should burn 10 000 liters of diesel on a private boat to cross de Atlantic due to pollution concerns is not a condemnation of anybody, just an opinion.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

In American English, the complete phrase is: "Good riddance to bad rubbish" and is considered to be almost fightin' words in some places. In any case, what was the purpose of the post in the first place, but to troll everyone else who picked up this thread and to rain on someone else's parade?

Exactly. Guys, please take it easy. Polux is not a native speaker and just doesn't know the tone of this phrase. I'm sure he didn't intend it to be as insulting as it sounds to a native speaker of English.

I also disagree with him completely about the Dashews, who in my opinion have made huge contributions to our sport. Why single them out for designing a few motor boats? There must be hundreds, if not thousands of designers of motor boats on the planet. Does he think that less motor boats will be designed just because the Dashews retired?

I love the Dashews' sailboats, which are highly original, just extremely original, full of truly inspired ideas, many of them very much after my own heart. My next boat will incorporate a lot of those ideas. Beowulf is actually very close to an ideal boat for me, except only that she is just slightly too big. And that's a 20 year old design! In my opinion it's really sad they stopped designing sailboats when they did. I do love the FPB's (what's wrong with power boats?), which are also highly original and wonderful vessels, just they're not sailboats

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Exactly. Guys, please take it easy. Polux is not a native speaker and just doesn't know the tone of this phrase. I'm sure he didn't intend it to be as insulting as it sounds to a native speaker of English.......

I also disagree with him completely about the Dashews...
....

Another one!!! I DID NOT SAID THAT!, It was somebody else that used that sentence.

And I did said nothing about the Dashews except this:

Originally Posted by Polux

What the hell is a sailing career in what regards cruising?

Someone chose to cruise on a sailing boat or on a motor boat.

It has nothing to do with a carer and many chose to cruise on a sailboat way past the age the Dashews have now and they have chosen to pass to motorboat cruising long ago.

I do agree with bigmarv point of view when he says that "leisure boats to cross oceans powered solely by fossil fuels" is something that is not right and should not be considered.

Can I know with what you disagree?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Bigmarv

Hilarious. But if it saves you all time, I was meaning good riddance to their business which promoted enormous carbon footprints that only an idiot could think was ok.

Pretty bizarre crowd to be offended by this being pointed out, but not be offended by people behaving so selfishly - motoring to see the very natural wonders that they are helping destroy. People are going to die because of this, and species become extinct.

Read the science. If you're not scared you didn't understand it. If you think it's ok to build or buy one of those motoryachts, you didn't understand it.

You could do something about that, or you could all be offended by two words in a post.

I do not disagree that motoring uses fossil fuels, generates carbon, contributes to pollution and global climate changes and all the other issues.

BUT, be careful casting the first stone here. Do you live in a house with asphalt shingles, is it painted? Do you drive a car? Obviously you use a computer. You certainly wear clothes, eat food (do you eat exclusively organic so using no chemical fertilizer, no pesticides). Do you own a sailboat? Use bottom paint? Use sails made from synthetic fibers?

All of these and more use oil as the starting point to make them (you know most plastics, resins, paints, etc are made from petroleum derivatives) or to produce the energy required to make them or both. Living on this planet in this modern society uses resources and generates pollution and garbage.

In the overall scheme of things the contributions from the Dashews' power boats is extremely minor, to the point of insignificant.

[Bigmarv]

Originally Posted by Polux

Another one!!! I DID NOT SAID THAT!, It was somebody else that used that sentence.

He's right - it was me!

Dockhead, interesting: have you actually seen how their sailing boats performed in real life? In light airs, like happen a lot? Upwind? They used them like motorsailers and promoted a type of cruising that was heavy in fuel use even when they still had sails.

[Franziska]

Speed is not a primary concern to most cruisers, especially not upwind speed.
It may be to some, but it does not have to be for others.
Everyone has their own priorities. A boat going slow upwind does not need to be bad. Maybe the owner chose different priorities than you.
Every cowboy its specfic pony.

And I agree everyone draws the line at a different point.

For one its fuel consumption, for another one having an engine, another one a fiberglass boat and so one.

Absolutely senseless to be so patronising to each other here.
Especially not in the type of tone some use.
"Good riddance" or "hell" or what else in that respect, is just plainly inappropriate amongst adult people on a subject like this.
Even myself as a non native speaker realizes that.

Keep it down guys, it about a wonderful lifestyle, freedom and not about fighting a war.

My 50ct.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bigmarv

He's right - it was me!

Dockhead, interesting: have you actually seen how their sailing boats performed in real life? In light airs, like happen a lot? Upwind? They used them like motorsailers and promoted a type of cruising that was heavy in fuel use even when they still had sails.

Yes, I have. I have spent time on two different Sundeers, and they are superb sailing machines. Where in the world do you get the idea that they "used them like motorsailers?" The trick is that the accommodation of these 65' boats is only like a 45 footer -- they are really stretched 45 footers which are thus ultralight 65 footers with superb D/L ratios and super easily driven hulls. Instead of scaling up the rig proportionately to get the last bit of possible speed out of them, they used modest rigs with very low drag, and the modest rigs allow modest draft. With very low drag rigs, and very fast due to low D/L and long waterline, they are absolutely fantastic upwind, one of the best upwind boats I've ever been on, much better than the Swan 90 I used to crew on, and moreover, very easy to sail over a wide variety of conditions due to the low stresses and low rig.

The extra length is used to create empty ends which reduce polar moment of inertia and pitching, further improving upwind performance. And those empty ends are used to provide fully watertight compartments fore and aft, where moreover all through hulls are located. Best engine room in the business -- because the whole aft part of the hull volume is devoted to it. The opposite approach of the modern commercially-oriented designs where every cubic centimeter of hull volume is used for hull volume with only tiny scraps left over for technical space, sail lockers (if they even exist), and deck storage.

The Sundeer is an absolutely brilliant boat. Maybe not quite as fast as some full on racer-cruisers of similar length and with much bigger rigs, like the Swan 60, but is faster over a wider range of conditions and far easier to handle, and much better in tough weather. Exactly the thing for practical long distance fast cruising, as opposed to coastal cafe racing with a full crew, which is a totally different mission. They are just about polar opposites from those Swan 60's, actually -- they are modest and practical and made for sailing, not posing. Absolutely the opposite of those boats made to make a dramatic statement at the yacht club.

So why don't I just buy one? Good question. Well, first of all they have hideous cave-like '80's uninsulated interiors (after 9 years in a Moody 54 ), and moreoever laid out for couples -- and I often sail with 5 or 6 people on board. And they are plastic, whereas I want my next boat to be metal. But there will be a lot of Sundeer DNA in my next boat.