Starlink needs your help

[purplesunrise]

Starlink is proving to be our best option for broadband internet at sea. We have had it on our boat for over a month, and it has been great. It is not as fast as a fixed location, but it beats the hell out of 4G 5G both in performance, unlimited data, and availability.
But now Starlink is being attacked by DISH (does any cruiser use DISH?). If the FCC does not reject the rule changes proposed by DISH for 12 GHz spectrum, Starlink customers will experience harmful interference*more than 77% of the time*and total outage of service*74% of the time,*rendering Starlink unusable for most Americans.*DISH is also screaming about Starlink users operating while mobile.
You can help insure we will continue to have reliable Starlink into the future. Please go to this website and fill out the form.
https://www.votervoice.net/SpaceX/Ca.../95756/Respond

[alctel]

I mean, this is what Starlink gets for trying to ignore licensing regulations and just bulldoze through stuff, I don't have much sympathy for them. It's not the first time Musk has done this either, look at all the mess around the tesla autopilots and the tunneling thing.

So screw 'em

edit: that petition also takes some liberties about what is actually being challenged

[wholybee]

I think Starlink is making an absurd claim. Don't worry, your service won't be interrupted.

The bandwidth can be shared. Maybe Starlink won't be able to grow as quickly as they would like. Maybe some adjustments will need to be made by both Starlink and Dish. But competing for bandwidth is nothing new, it has been going on between competitors for 100 years.

It isn't in our best interest to allow Starlink to monopolize the bandwidth. Nor is it good to allow Starlink to push its competitors out of the market by preventing them access to additional bandwidth necessary for higher speeds. Competition is good.

It's a dirty tactic for Starlink to send out letters with false information to convince the public to write the FCC. But Dish regularly employs similar tactics in its negotiations, so whatever. It's just a game, don't fall for it.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by alctel

I mean, this is what Starlink gets for trying to ignore licensing regulations and just bulldoze through stuff, I don't have much sympathy for them. It's not the first time Musk has done this either, look at all the mess around the tesla autopilots and the tunneling thing.

So screw 'em

edit: that petition also takes some liberties about what is actually being challenged

What licensing regs has SpaceX ignored?

[Baby tug]

Why anybody would defend dish is beyond me they’ve been ripping off people for decades now , I have no love for dish whatsoever they didn’t build their own rockets they didn’t manufacture their own satellites I’m behind Elon musk all the way , Elon for president

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

What licensing regs has SpaceX ignored?

Not ignored per se, but they seem to encourage mobile use, while in the fine print they state it is not allowed. Mobile use is not licensed at this time. AFAIK that is the only licensing issue. It's also one of the Complaints Dish has brought, somehow claiming that mobile use will affect their services whereas stationary won't.

I don't know how the proposed 12GHz band is organized. Presumably it is channelized somehow, so for example multiple beams from the dish, or multiple beams from multiple users, will operate on different channels. It isn't realistic to think that only one provider will have access to all of that. Nor is it true that if Dish enters that space will service interruptions be inevitable. Each gets access to some channels. So that will limit the number of customers each can have, or limit speeds. But service will not just go away. What will happen is that Starlink won't grow as large as Musk hopes for in the US. And Starlink won't be the only choice for high bandwidth wireless.

So each company is employing tactics to try and get more space than the other. It's business as usual and normal negotiations for companies dealing with the FCC and bandwidth allocations.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

Why anybody would defend dish is beyond me they’ve been ripping off people for decades now , I have no love for dish whatsoever they didn’t build their own rockets they didn’t manufacture their own satellites I’m behind Elon musk all the way , Elon for president

Well that isn't a convincing argument. Many people are very happy to have Dish over Comcast or Cox, two companies I have no love for.

Starlink is a new player that is providing good competition. I enjoy my Starlink service. But Elon isn't a Saint, and does his share of ripping people off.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Not ignored per se, but they seem to encourage mobile use, while in the fine print they state it is not allowed. Mobile use is not licensed at this time. AFAIK that is the only licensing issue. It's also one of the Complaints Dish has brought, somehow claiming that mobile use will affect their services whereas stationary won't.



I don't know how the proposed 12GHz band is organized. Presumably it is channelized somehow, so for example multiple beams from the dish, or multiple beams from multiple users, will operate on different channels. It isn't realistic to think that only one provider will have access to all of that. Nor is it true that if Dish enters that space will service interruptions be inevitable. Each gets access to some channels. So that will limit the number of customers each can have, or limit speeds. But service will not just go away. What will happen is that Starlink won't grow as large as Musk hopes for in the US. And Starlink won't be the only choice for high bandwidth wireless.



So each company is employing tactics to try and get more space than the other. It's business as usual and normal negotiations for companies dealing with the FCC and bandwidth allocations.

Dish don't want to use the 12Ghz for Sat comms. They want it for 5G ground stations (a terrestrial network) which is why it's a problem for any Starlink users in the vicinity. Wouldn't matter for us cruisers out on the ocean.

As for mobile use on Starlink. Apparently the FCC is OK with the "don't use this for mobile..." request as they are likely to grant a license soon anyway. They have already granted a limited use license for ships and aircraft for testing purposes.

Would be a different matter if mobile was never going to be allowed. The FCC could easily send a cease service order to Spacex if it was really an issue.

[goboatingnow]

The fcc have long argued that the 12 GHz spectrum space is badly utilised only for sat down links. They have stated they would like to open that spectrum for other uses

Starlink is whinging it can’t handle that

[SV Tom Crean]

Boom. Told ya.

FCC just authorised Starlink for mobile (boats, planes and trucks)

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/30/fcc-...ts-planes.html

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Well that isn't a convincing argument. Many people are very happy to have Dish over Comcast or Cox, two companies I have no love for.

Starlink is a new player that is providing good competition. I enjoy my Starlink service. But Elon isn't a Saint, and does his share of ripping people off.

Dishes is bleeding customers by the bucket load pretty much the only people that have dish have no choice , I’m not a big fan of the cable companies , I use them for Internet about my only choice certainly not going to get it from dish , so hopefully they’ll be some competition on the Internet side it’s really important we have some competition for Internet , Elon musk hasn’t got a dollar form me , I’ve done no business with them whatsoever however they make the best electric car on the planet soon will provide Internet service or are providing Internet service to anybody on the planet that wants it available everywhere nobody else can do that . I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say he’s ripping people off , on what he sells a car ,you want to buy it or you don’t , Internet service you either wanna buy it or you don’t , you have a choice most people that have dish have no choice hence the ripping off

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean

Boom. Told ya.

FCC just authorised Starlink for mobile (boats, planes and trucks)

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/30/fcc-...ts-planes.html

Progress!

I am close to ordering one. Holding out for a while to see if this means there will be a marine or mobile-optimized antenna.

But, what's still missing is inter-satellite comms which are needed to make access away from a shore station possible. I am waiting to hear any positive news on that front as well.

Internet on passage could be a real game changer, and not because you can watch streaming movies, that's silly. But for access to weather, routing, medical advice, and even just communication with family.

[HopCar]

This is a case of an established company trying to prevent a new competitor from taking a share of the market.

Instead of improving their product, they are using the government to stop competition. They are scared because Starlink has the potential to provide a better service.

John Stossel explains it well in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuokcKGvxXM

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by HopCar

This is a case of an established company trying to prevent a new competitor from taking a share of the market.

Instead of improving their product, they are using the government to stop competition. They are scared because Starlink has the potential to provide a better service.

John Stossel explains it well in this video.

It's not quite that simple. Dish is established, but their primary service is Television. Starlink is new, but provides a faster service than anyone else. In order for legacy providers to compete and provide faster service, they need more bandwidth from the FCC. That is totally reasonable. To give Starlink exclusive access to the bandwidth required for high speed wireless service effectively gives them a monopoly.

I don't have Dish service. But a lot of my friends do, and they love it. While their profits are down the past year (like most companies) they are still very profitable. (400M or so if I recall)

[CaptTom]

My understanding is that Starlink won't have a monopoly for long. I think somewhere in this or a similar thread someone linked to two other companies working on their own systems.

This is great news to me. I've been beholden to a monopoly cable company for decades now, and I can't wait to get out from under their thumb. We've already cut back to just internet, no TV or phone service from them.

As for Dish, I see their concern. TV has gone from the broadcast model to on-demand streaming. Starlink offers high-speed internet which will support streaming, making them a direct competitor. Surely Dish knows Starlink will speed up their demise.

I still think it was unethical to try to use the power of the government to stifle competition. Of course corporations have no ethics. I don't like it, but that's the way our system works. I'm glad they failed.