SSB?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thoreed

I used to have a FleetBroadband 250 system on my Oyster which is capable of decent speeds but at great expense. I found that the critical thing was to have a router between the boat network and the satellite modem with a firewall programmed to block all traffic except the specific destinations needed for basic email and weather (in my case xgate and Predictwind). With that in place, I found that a few MB per month was plenty for all the ocean crossing we did without access to cellular or WiFi internet.

OK, that's valuable experience


We had the Unlimited Data plan on the Iridium Go ($139/mo), so we didn't care. We were limited only by the slow speed. We liked the Go very much and found that even this very slow data connection, but unlimited, was supremely useful. Interestingly, we hardly used any voice minutes at ll. Voice calls were just not that interesting, once we had excellent email and SMS communication. The slow data connection was absolutely fine for plain text email, weatherfax, weather reports, and GRIBs, and with patience could be used on attachments up to a few hundred kB.



I can imagine wanting Fleet Broadband, just because I am still actively running a business, but if I went to that, I would want a much bigger data package. If you're going to be using only 50MB a month, I don't see much point in a fast connection.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't know how I would stay within 50MB a month on a high speed connection.


I used more than a GB last summer on my extremely slow Iridium Go, in about 6 weeks off the grid.


Even very lean VOIP codecs need about a MB per minute of a voice call. I think even special satellite codecs need about 3kbs, and I think that needs to be hardware implemented -- like, inside an actual satellite phone -- to work.



Sounds like a great system, but the faster the connection, the more data most people will need. 50MB is gone in one gulp if you load the wrong page.

I don't plan on using the KVH system to meet 100% of our needs, that would cost a fortune. We'll still be using our smartphones and iPads with unlimited data plans for 99% of our needs. The 50MB via KVH is just to send or receive an emergency phone call, place a data call if no internet available via smartphone, and receive weather files when no internet available. Iridium Go is $149 per month for a snail's pace service, the KVH plan is $49 per month working at light speed.

[MV Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I can imagine wanting Fleet Broadband, just because I am still actively running a business, but if I went to that, I would want a much bigger data package. If you're going to be using only 50MB a month, I don't see much point in a fast connection.

Yes, agreed. I used it only because it was already installed when we bought the boat - I would never have paid to install Fleet Broadband simply to use a few MB a month.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I don't plan on using the KVH system to meet 100% of our needs, that would cost a fortune. We'll still be using our smartphones and iPads with unlimited data plans for 99% of our needs. The 50MB via KVH is just to send or receive an emergency phone call, place a data call if no internet available via smartphone, and receive weather files when no internet available. Iridium Go is $149 per month for a snail's pace service, the KVH plan is $49 per month working at light speed.

Sure, if you're not off grid for long periods of time, then that should work fine.


I have taken a somewhat different approach to the problem of how the coastal sailor deals with occasional off grid passages:


I sold the Iridium.


This summer I will be sailing back to Finland and will leave the boat there for a while. So I will be out of mobile telephone range only occasionally -- 4 days across the North Sea, just a couple of the longer passages in the Baltic.



That didn't seem worth a summer's worth of Iridium service to me $139 x 3 plus an activation fee (plus I wanted to get rid of the Go! since something better is coming out later this year, according to what I hear).


So I will be using -- SSB and Pactor and Winlink. Getting back to the original subject of this thread.


It's a bit of a faff to use every day, but for that odd passage, it's just fine. 0 operating costs. If I wanted to send business emails with it, I would have to sign up for sailmail, defeating the purpose because of the quite high cost of that, but I can do without business emails for such relatively short periods.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sure, if you're not off grid for long periods of time, then that should work fine.


I have taken a somewhat different approach to the problem of how the coastal sailor deals with occasional off grid passages:


I sold the Iridium.


This summer I will be sailing back to Finland and will leave the boat there for a while. So I will be out of mobile telephone range only occasionally -- 4 days across the North Sea, just a couple of the longer passages in the Baltic.



That didn't seem worth a summer's worth of Iridium service to me $139 x 3 plus an activation fee (plus I wanted to get rid of the Go! since something better is coming out later this year, according to what I hear).


So I will be using -- SSB and Pactor and Winlink. Getting back to the original subject of this thread.


It's a bit of a faff to use every day, but for that odd passage, it's just fine. 0 operating costs. If I wanted to send business emails with it, I would have to sign up for sailmail, defeating the purpose because of the quite high cost of that, but I can do without business emails for such relatively short periods.

Sailmail along with the cost of adding an SSB and Pactor model would far exceed the price I paid for the KVH systems, and offer a far diminished level of service.

Suggesting the KVH broadband instead of SSB is inline with what this thread is all about. I suggested ditching the SSB in favor of adding an up to date system.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Sailmail along with the cost of adding an SSB and Pactor model would far exceed the price I paid for the KVH systems, and offer a far diminished level of service.

Suggesting the KVH broadband instead of SSB is inline with what this thread is all about. I suggested ditching the SSB in favor of adding an up to date system.

Well, sure -- if it's just a question of cost, and you're considering the installation cost, then satellite can be far cheaper.


How much did your KVH system cost to install?


In my case, I already had the SSB and Pactor, so the cost for that was zero.


The OP has the radio and tuner, but it's not installed and he doesn't have a Pactor modem. An Iridium Go plus a summer's worth of unlimited data will be potentially cheaper than installing the SSB and getting some kind of a modem. I don't know about the KVH.


As to HF radio being not "up to date" -- well, there are different views on that. There are about a million threads on here about the pluses and minuses of HF radio vs. satellite -- each has its advantages so everyone will have to decide himself.

[Kenomac]

I don't have either or systems, we have all three KVH, Iridium Go and SSB. Wouldn't I be the best one to compare all three?

The SSB simply does not get used, it's 1900's technology, outdated and useless for audio communications since nobody is listening any longer, so why should the OP waste his money on an expensive install, when his money can be better spent on more recent technology?

My recommendation: Sell the SSB to someone mired in the past for $1000-$2000, and then spend the money on modern tech.

[boom23]

When we cruised the S. Pacific, the SSB was invaluable. During crossings all the cruiser nets were on the SSB. Because I only had Iridium GO, I ended up installing the SSB in Tahiti (not the best installers...). I was completely disconnected from the other cruisers without SSB.

I'm not sure about Med cruising, but I'm installing SSB on my next boat also. I want to be ready, and have the SSB installed by someone who knows how to install it correctly. I will also have Iridium GO with external antenna.

Are there better/cheaper/newer setups out there? Probably... It all depends on what you need.

That's my experience.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I don't have either or systems, we have all three KVH, Iridium Go and SSB. Wouldn't I be the best one to compare all three?

The SSB simply does not get used, it's 1900's technology, outdated and useless for audio communications since nobody is listening any longer, so why should the OP waste his money on an expensive install, when his money can be better spent on more recent technology?

My recommendation: Sell the SSB to someone mired in the past for $1000-$2000, and then spend the money on modern tech.

That's one point of view.



But it is objectively false that "no one is listening" on HF radio or that it is "useless for audio communications". There is still lots of activity on the nets, not to even speak about the amateur frequencies (don't know if the OP is a ham or not). The OP's rig, however, it is true, is much compromised for distress signalling since it lacks DSC.


I guess you're trolling for reactions from the many people on here who like and use HF radio, saying that you would have to be "mired in the past" to want to use that "outdated technology."



But I was brought up not to feed trolls, so I won't respond to that! If you like satellites, then by all means use them and be happy!

Originally Posted by boom23

When we cruised the S. Pacific, the SSB was invaluable. During crossings all the cruiser nets were on the SSB. Because I only had Iridium GO, I ended up installing the SSB in Tahiti (not the best installers...). I was completely disconnected from the other cruisers without SSB.

I'm not sure about Med cruising, but I'm installing SSB on my next boat also. I want to be ready, and have the SSB installed by someone who knows how to install it correctly. I will also have Iridium GO with external antenna.

Are there better/cheaper/newer setups out there? Probably... It all depends on what you need.

That's my experience.

Case on point


Everyone should use what they like!

[gaucho]

Also, suggesting a 15k solution to someone thinking of spending 1/4 of that amount of money sounds like there is a slight misunderstanding of realities.

SSB is fantastic. Pactor is fantastic. Thanks to great tools like PredictWind Offshore (which make it easy to select just what you need to download, plus is designed to work with low bandwith infrequent connections), the combo is still alive and kicking. Add to that there's tons of cruisers nets who still use them.

I think SailMail should open up to offering something like 25usd for monthly plans or something along those lines. I would love to have SailMail, but not cruising all the time makes the expense too much for too little. I might be happy to pay 50-100 usd just when I need it. Are more people in this kind of situation?

Iridium GO is a game changer. Even as an emergency/basic comms tool, Inreach is absolutely a DEAL CHANGER! And newer technologies will only bring new options to the table.

Regarding Inreach, a friend of mine is right now in Tristan Da Cunha, crossing from Uruguay to Cape Town, solo. He has used inreach not only to keep in touch with family and friends, but also he has been getting weather and routing info from myself and another friend in Italy. He gets two viewpoints on weather, from people he trusts, and we are one message away from other types of help. It's inexpesnive to purchase, doesn't require permanent installation, it's easy to use and it also offers some weather info (although I find it lacking). The best thing; you can disable the monthly bill intermittently if you are on the right plan. Being a commuter cruiser, I use that functionality A LOT!

Lots of options, the best is to have a couple. Maybe SSB/Pactor + Inreach. Or SSB + Iridium GO. Or if you have 15k to spare, Tracphone or Fleet Broadband. That last one I have used on SeaShepherd ships. It's fantastic. But they make sense for SHIPS, not for sailboats.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's one point of view.



But it is objectively false that "no one is listening" on HF radio or that it is "useless for audio communications". There is still lots of activity on the nets, not to even speak about the amateur frequencies (don't know if the OP is a ham or not). The OP's rig, however, it is true, is much compromised for distress signalling since it lacks DSC.


I guess you're trolling for reactions from the many people on here who like and use HF radio, saying that you would have to be "mired in the past" to want to use that "outdated technology."



But I was brought up not to feed trolls, so I won't respond to that! If you like satellites, then by all means use them and be happy!




Case on point


Everyone should use what they like!

I'm not "trolling" as you call it. It just so happens that I have an educated opinion different from yours from having owned and used all three systems. Is this the new way discussion is halted and debate shut down on CF by calling someone a name such as "feeding trolls?"

The last time I checked in with you regarding your use of the SSB, your system hadn't ever been installed or tested, has you situation changed? I know last time I turned on my SSB.... crickets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlj_2ivCMlQ&t=19s

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by gaucho

Also, suggesting a 15k solution to someone thinking of spending 1/4 of that amount of money sounds like there is a slight misunderstanding of realities.

SSB is fantastic. Pactor is fantastic. Thanks to great tools like PredictWind Offshore (which make it easy to select just what you need to download, plus is designed to work with low bandwith infrequent connections), the combo is still alive and kicking. Add to that there's tons of cruisers nets who still use them.

I think SailMail should open up to offering something like 25usd for monthly plans or something along those lines. I would love to have SailMail, but not cruising all the time makes the expense too much for too little. I might be happy to pay 50-100 usd just when I need it. Are more people in this kind of situation?

Iridium GO is a game changer. Even as an emergency/basic comms tool, Inreach is absolutely a DEAL CHANGER! And newer technologies will only bring new options to the table.

Regarding Inreach, a friend of mine is right now in Tristan Da Cunha, crossing from Uruguay to Cape Town, solo. He has used inreach not only to keep in touch with family and friends, but also he has been getting weather and routing info from myself and another friend in Italy. He gets two viewpoints on weather, from people he trusts, and we are one message away from other types of help. It's inexpesnive to purchase, doesn't require permanent installation, it's easy to use and it also offers some weather info (although I find it lacking). The best thing; you can disable the monthly bill intermittently if you are on the right plan. Being a commuter cruiser, I use that functionality A LOT!

Lots of options, the best is to have a couple. Maybe SSB/Pactor + Inreach. Or SSB + Iridium GO. Or if you have 15k to spare, Tracphone or Fleet Broadband. That last one I have used on SeaShepherd ships. It's fantastic. But they make sense for SHIPS, not for sailboats.

I didn't spend $15k, in fact I spent about the same about as it will cost the OP to purchase a new Pactor modem and install his SSB.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

. . . It just so happens that I have an educated opinion different from yours . .

Different from my uneducated opinion, I guess you're saying . . .


OK, boss, whatever you say . . .

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Different from my uneducated opinion, I guess you're saying . . .


OK, boss, whatever you say . . .

I didn't write that, you took it the wrong way. I very clearly wrote that I've installed and used all three systems which makes my opinion an educated one.

Next time, please include my entire quote instead of extracting a slice of it in order to change the entire meaning and make your point. I always try to do this when quoting someone. Plus, I really don't understand why you're taking this entire difference of opinion so personally, I purchased the Iridium Go per your suggestion a year ago.

If you prefer, I'll start keeping all my opinions to myself and let the CF knowledge base stagnate in the 1900's. Is that what you want? Old people talking about old boats with old obsolete equipment installed.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I didn't write that, you took it the wrong way. I very clearly wrote that I've installed and used all three systems which makes my opinion an educated one.

Next time, please include my entire quote instead of extracting a slice of it in order to change the entire meaning and make your point. I always try to do this when quoting someone. Plus, I really don't understand why you're taking this entire difference of opinion so personally, I purchased the Iridium Go per your suggestion a year ago.

If you prefer, I'll start keeping all my opinions to myself and let the CF knowledge base stagnate in the 1900's. Is that what you want? Old people talking about old boats with old obsolete equipment installed.

I was not taking it personally, I was just poking good-natured fun at how that sounded. Which was not changed by deleting the extraneous text


You are not the only one who has "used all three systems" (actually there are many more than three), and I don't know why you think that makes one opinion "educated". I've had HF radios of various types on three different boats (and I'm an Extra Class ham!), and I've used a variety of satellite gear, and others posting in this thread have similar experience.



Every system has its pluses and minuses and everyone should just use what one likes. HF radio has plenty of disadvantages, and should not be taken on at all by someone who expects to just push buttons and talk. But HF radio has other very significant advantages, and is far from being "obsolete". It's absolutely fine that you don't like it, but that doesn't make it "outdated". It may be that you would like it more if you got some training -- HF radio is not plug 'n play at all and requires actual knowledge to use effectively. But if you're simply not interested, that's ok too.