Son Says Radar

[tartansail]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

We find that our success in fog requires one person fulltime assigned to the radar screen interpreting targets and another at the helm. For us, cruising in fog is an intensive edurance task.

Agree with this in a place like coastal Maine. We had to do an eight hour run from SW Harbor to Tenants Harbor in fog a couple of years ago. The person on the helm was responsible for ATN's, the CP and avoiding lobster pots. The other was on radar, worked the horn and was responsible for ID'ing other craft. With visibility about two boat lengths, it was, indeed, full-time concentration for both of us. It also speaks to the importance of learning to use radar before you need it. Fortunately, Maine also has some spectacularly beautiful days which are a great time to match targets to eyeballs.

I spent several years windsurfing in SF Bay and, before that, surfing in SoCal. Fog in SF is the real deal, but it doesn't compare to what the OP will deal with on a regular basis as he sails out of Blue Hill Bay. The SoCal marine layer is not part of the same conversation. The other challenge with sailing in Maine is that the season is very short. Fog is a major part of at least half of the best times to be on the water. Without radar, you're shortening an already short season or taking on significant risk.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I agree completely! Fog can be a dangerous place and sometimes unavoidable in the area(s) he indicated. How much money is your life worth - is a valid question everyone needs to answer for themselves.

If you can afford to own a sailboat in Maine you can afford to also own radar. It is a "choice" and some people will opt for the new interior cushions, the fancy bottom job to go faster, the TV, cockpit cushions or the iPad linked to the gizmodowhatchamcalit. From a safety perspective in MAINE I'd get the radar before the other superfluous stuff..

Plotters have given many boaters balls as big as grapefruits and radar in Maine has become your only defense. 20 years ago in Maine most all boats would be doing head way speed in the Pea Soup. Now it is not out of the ordinary to see a 30' Sea Ray guided only by a plotter doing 30+ knots in 100' of visibility...

This is a regular scene now days in Maine. No radar reflector, no running lights, not monitoring VHF 16 or any other channel for that matter and not blowing fog signals.. This boat was blasting along at 20+ knots in thick fog with only a GPS... Idiots abound it is up to you to do the best you can to protect yourself...


AIS in Maine is still pretty useless as there are very, very few boats TXing it. Unless you are in the "approaches" it offers very little info on this coast compared to radar. AIS is good but I would invest in radar well before AIS as it relates to Maine at this point in time.

As for radar systems I just got to see, touch and feel the brand new Lowrance HDS7.. Very, very, very, very cool and hands down will be the best bang for the buck in a plotter/radar. I installed a bunch of e7's etc. last summer but this summer I suspect my customers will pounce the new Lowrance stuff.... All I can say about it is WOW, and I am not easily impressed....

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Ram

I have often found that the charts were off a bit coming into an inlet or marina and the radar is dead on every time-sometimes you only have one shot at coming thru, and the radar makes the difference if you can see or not at night

Plotters show you what was supposed to be there when they made the chart.

Radar shows you what is there right now.

It's a pertinent difference.

[rocksculpter]

Well, I'm a budget boater. In the Pacific Northwest you get fog. Almost getting run down by an oil tanker in the dark, he was running illegally without the required tug assist, and sailing in a gale, with fog and into an unknown port pushed me into spending the $1200.

I was amazed that even a low end radar can help you get around. The ability to judge how fast a freighter is coming down on you, even in the daylight, is comforting. Unless the sea state is really bad I can easily pick up logs, kayakers and mooring buoys. Navigating between islands with hidden reefs I can tell exactly how I'm situated in the channel.

It does take practice to interpret what you see so I highly recommend spending time in good visibility testing what you see. For those worried about power consumption the new FM radars are great.

Barry

[sailorboy1]

I don't think I even turned my radar onto active last year. But I'm still glad I have it.

But the last time I used it in an area that I really wanted it the biggest dangers turned ut to be fishing boats that weren't showing up on radar (the same ones that were not running their lights, making any horn signals, or even responding to the horn signals I was doing).

If you don't currently have radar or a plotter be sure to get a system that will overlay the 2.

[svHyLyte]

Sailed for 40 years without and couldn't understand the need of one. Have since sailed the last 10 years with one and can't understand how we got along for such a long while without (just good luck I s'pose). Considering how, relatively, inexpensive a good set is, unless one is sailing a very small, energy challanged, yacht, why even consider doing without?

FWIW...

[downunder]

Don't know what your neck of the woods is like but here in Australia but vessel movements like roads have increased massively in recent years compared with the previous 5/10/20 years.

Radar in combination with chartplotters enables a check reference to approach an anchorage at night in safety.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Sailed for 40 years without and couldn't understand the need of one. Have since sailed the last 10 years with one and can't understand how we got along for such a long while without .....................

I like this statement! It seems to happen with many devices.
We sailed for 20years without a depthsounder,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed for 20 years without refrigeration,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed for 20 years without GPS,- 'can't do without now!
We sailed 30 years without radar,- 'can't do without now!
We've sailed over 40 years without interfaced instruments and a "chartplotter",- I bet if I take that on, then I won't be able to do without!
I love to take on new things and find them so useful!
......and then there's the other side. I used to have an RDF that I couldn't do without! Thanks, HyLyte.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by LJH

Radar is a very useful tool, but you need to take the time to learn how to use it properly. It is useful for navigating, checking the weather (squall activity) and for monitoring other vessels in your vicinity. Learn how to use it in good weather and it will serve you well when the visibility is reduced in fog or rain. I would put radar above AIS in the equipment list.

Totally agree! The value of radar is only as good as the operator

When Marine Radar became commercially available after WW II they thought this would be the end of collisions at Sea.
Now they have a whole new category of incidents called ‘ Radar Assisted Collisions’

[saw77]

I also sail in Maine, the boat I just bought has radar and I'm very happy it does. As others have noted, the fog in Maine has a life of its own.

[mbianka]

Like Don I have not used my radar in several years. But, that's only because I have not been out in conditions where it was really needed. But, I am certainly glad it is on board and would not hesitate to fire it up when the fog rolls in:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: A FOGGY MORNING ON THE MOORING
I also installed an AIS transponder this year which I will use much more than my radar. In fact it will be on during every sail. It does not take the place of the radar but, is another tool the works well with it.
Your son is right. In Maine with it's frequent fog conditions I would go with radar first and AIS second.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by tartansail

We've sailed in Maine with and without radar. Without, it wasn't uncommon to be stuck in harbor for several days. With radar, we've made several trips that, while not fun, were safer and less stressful. Between the lobster boats, other pleasure craft and the barges in tow, there's plenty going on that isn't on the chartplotter. Just being able to localize the sound of an engine and track the source is a big stress reducer. We'll be up in Blue Hill Bay this summer and we'll see you. Hope you see us as well.

Exactly!

[MarkJ]

A sail boat without AIS is like a speed bump to a ship.

It depends on the type of cruising you aredoung and the loacl conditions.

In 40 years on the water i have never sailed in fog except for whole days of the stuff on the ICW in Florida.

If one is only sailing in foggy areas you may come to a different decision, but if just transiting through fog areas and cruising world wide, as i do, the AIS is the most important.

Currently i am at sea near Key West and i have 21 AIS targets largest range 100 nms, 70, 3x 40, 2x30, and the rest gradually closer. Radar cant do that.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Currently i am at sea near Key West and i have 21 AIS targets largest range 100 nms, 70, 3x 40, 2x30, and the rest gradually closer. Radar cant do that.

But it might show targets that don't have an AIS transponder. Look out!! What's that 100 ton bucket of rust behind me doing?

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I like this statement! It seems to happen with many devices....
I love to take on new things and find them so useful!
......and then there's the other side. I used to have an RDF that I couldn't do without! Thanks, HyLyte.

You're Welcome..

Funny RDF Story (for some).

We have a late 70's era Seafix RDF that kind of looks like a lunch-box on a pistol grip handle with a hand bearing compass sitting on top and a pair of earphones that we thought was the penultimate “high technology” gear when we got it. At one point, in the time before we had Radar and before we had fully embraced GPS, we were fog-bound near the mouth of the northwest entry channel to our harbor. As there was an RDF transmitting station at the foot of the channel, one could limber up one's RDF and sail “down the beam”, into the harbor in a pea-soup fog, ticking off channel marks as one passed each in turn. While hove too at the channel mouth, taking the first swing with the RDF, a small motor cruiser passed us at dead slow, close abeam. We waved to the helmsman as he passed and were surprised when he suddenly slowed, reversed course and idled up to our windward rail. “Has there been some kind of accident?” he questioned, “Is everything okay?” “Why yes, I think so” I responded “everything's good with us, why do you ask?” “Well” he answered “I saw you using that Gieger Counter thing and I was worried that there might have been a problem at Diablo Canyon I needed to know about, so I thought I’d better ask!” “Ah… Nope. Nobody glowing hereabouts that we know of” I responded. “Gee thanks” he sighed, “that's a relief”, and with that, sped of into the gloom. “Do you believe that?” I asked my tired, chilled, damp, (much) better half. “At this point I'd believe anything that would get us anchored and a bowel of hot soup. Get moving Buster!” And so we did, faithfully following the Null on our “Geiger Counter”.

And we still have the old girl today (the Geiger Counter that is). And, she still works.

FWIW...