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OldFrog75 · 13-12-2013, 09:40

I know the difference between a cutter and a sloop but is there such a thing as a "cutter rigged sloop" or is that a misnomer for a "solent rig"?

djmarchand · 13-12-2013, 09:50

Classically, a cutter has its mast set further aft on the hull, so its J dimension is relatively longer than a sloop. A cutter also has its inner forestay attached at about 75% of the J dimension. Its inner forestay usually doesn't quite parallel the genoa forestay. You can usually tack the genoa, but it does take a bit of practice.

A Solent rig is the same as a sloop in its mast location and J. The inner forestay is attached at 90-95% of J and parallels the genoa stay. You have to roll in the genoa to tack the genoa. The sail that is attached to the inner forestay is typically cut flat for windward use and is often self tacking. You don't fly both headsails at the same time as you do with a cutter.

David

**HappyMdRSailor** · 13-12-2013, 09:56

A friend of mine at the marina has a sloop-cutter....

He calls it a "Slutter"...

I always giggle or grin when he says it...

Cutter = 2 headsails flying...

Solent = 1 headsail at a time...

Not the expert for sure... just my limited brain sponge....

carlylelk · 13-12-2013, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmarchand

Classically, a cutter has its mast set further aft on the hull, so its J dimension is relatively longer than a sloop. A cutter also has its inner forestay attached at about 75% of the J dimension. Its inner forestay usually doesn't quite parallel the genoa forestay. You can usually tack the genoa, but it does take a bit of practice.

A Solent rig is the same as a sloop in its mast location and J. The inner forestay is attached at 90-95% of J and parallels the genoa stay. You have to roll in the genoa to tack the genoa. The sail that is attached to the inner forestay is typically cut flat for windward use and is often self tacking. You don't fly both headsails at the same time as you do with a cutter.

David

David,

What is the advantage of the Solent rig vs. the Cutter?

GILow · 13-12-2013, 14:09

I think I have a variation on this with our boat which has twin forestays set about 1 foot apart for and aft then it has a staysail set as per a normal staysail position. Some have called our setup a Solent rig. However our self furler is set on the rear of the two forestays so tacking is not difficult and is even doable with the staysail set tho it helps to half furl first if you have the time. I am just unclear on why all Solent rigs would not use this setup since it seems simpler than using the forward of the two forestays. I suppose it does shift the leading edge of the jib back a bit but I would have thought that was worth it for the simpler tacking. Anyway it still gives you two very useable forestays in addition to the staysail so to my mind that makes it very practical.
Matt

djmarchand · 13-12-2013, 14:37

I owned a Saga 43 with the Solent rig and an Island Packet 37 with a traditional cutter rig.

I can't say one was better than the other. The Solent rig on the Saga was perfect for its performance cruiser style. The big (well, not so big- a normal 130%) genoa handled everything until the true wind got 50 deg or so and then you furled it and ran out the 100% flat cut jib. At that angle the 100% jib performed better than the genoa would have because of its flat shape. But you couldn't use the inner flat cut sail like a staysail on a cutter because of the way it was led. It wouldn't fly well at true wind angles of more than 60 deg.

So the cutter rig was actually more versatile. A fully furled genoa and a full or partially furled staysail with a double reefed main worked well in up to 35-40 kts even off of the wind. The Solent wouldn't have a good sail combination for this situation.

I didn't go far offshore on the Saga, but if I did, I would have a Gale Sail that I could attach over the furled inner sail and sheeted through the genoa blocks of the foresail. That would give me a nice performing storm sail for 35+ kts of wind and a double or triple reefed main.

David

cal40john · 13-12-2013, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GILow

I think I have a variation on this with our boat which has twin forestays set about 1 foot apart for and aft then it has a staysail set as per a normal staysail position. Some have called our setup a Solent rig. However our self furler is set on the rear of the two forestays so tacking is not difficult and is even doable with the staysail set tho it helps to half furl first if you have the time. I am just unclear on why all Solent rigs would not use this setup since it seems simpler than using the forward of the two forestays. I suppose it does shift the leading edge of the jib back a bit but I would have thought that was worth it for the simpler tacking. Anyway it still gives you two very useable forestays in addition to the staysail so to my mind that makes it very practical.
Matt

What do you use your forward most stay for?

I've been considering adding a removable solent stay on my sloop. Forward has the furler with big light air sail. Solent stay has hanked on smaller sail, for upwind sailing in heavier wind with nice flatter sail.

OldFrog75 · 13-12-2013, 15:09

So the answer to the OP question is : there is no such thing as a "cutter rigged sloop"?

GILow · 13-12-2013, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal40john

What do you use your forward most stay for? I've been considering adding a removable solent stay on my sloop. Forward has the furler with big light air sail. Solent stay has hanked on smaller sail, for upwind sailing in heavier wind with nice flatter sail.

Actually this thread has been making me think a bit more about our setup.

Currently we use the forward stay with hanked on sails from time to time. But with the furler on the rear stay and genoa on the furler there has been a lazy tendency to overuse the genoa. Probably not great sail choice. I am wondering about putting a second furler on the forward stay and fitting the genoa on that furler and the Yankee on the rear furler. A bit of extra drag I suppose but maybe the convenience of having the correct sail ready to go would be worthwhile.

What you suggest sounds smart but I know what a lazy sailor I can be so I would bet we still ended up using the genoa too much if the Yankee was not also on a furler. Plus we would end up having to furl it to tack.

But in answer to original question I THINK I could say we have a Solent rigged cutter. My only reluctance in saying so is that I don't understand the concepts of Solent rigs enough to say if our boat qualifies.

Matt

Peter1949 · 15-12-2013, 00:41

Could you fly both sails down wind? Poled out wing and wing.
As David said the Solent sail is cut flatter for upwind sailing .i suppose you would have to have one cut for downwind sailing.
Pete

robert sailor · 15-12-2013, 00:50

One of the big differences is that because a solent stay is supported at the masthead just below the headstay there is no need for running backstays which are common on most staysails

robert sailor · 15-12-2013, 00:51

Yes you can fly both downwind which is one of the nice features of this type of rig

**nigel1** · 15-12-2013, 03:12

This is the setup I have, which I thought was a slutter rig

If the breeze is enough, the genny can be tacked through ther gap between the two stays, in light airs I have to leg it forward and help the genny through.
Advantage is no need for flying backstays. In strong winds, I use the staysail with a reefed main, and if upwind, I need to rig the staysail sheets inside the shrouds.
Downwind, I can fly both, usually with the genoa poled out to windward.

GILow · 15-12-2013, 04:28

So..., sorry to hijack a bit, but does this make my rig a solent cutter or not? I have doctored this photo to add the running backstays (light blue) and staysail stay (yellowy green), both of which were stowed out of the way when this picture was taken. Hopefully you can make out the dual forestays.

Matt