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Old 22-02-2018, 16:11   #241
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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...I strongly suspect that it is far more cost effective to protect yourself with a good policy than it would be to require everyone to have one.
Exactly right, and far more appropriate than demanding that everyone else pay so as to meet your risk tolerance level.

We all make our own risk assessment, and make choices to mitigate those risks we deem significant. If part of your assessment is that the risk is significant that you will incur a loss from someone who will not recompense you for their negligent behaviour, then you need to do something. Buying uninsured insurance (or whatever itís called) is very cheap, and is usually part of any comprehensive insurance package. Itís cheap (even cheaper than liability insurance) b/c the risk is vanishingly small.
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:11   #242
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

I used to know an old pool hustler. He drove a new Cadillac DeVille convertible and had never had a Driver's License or insurance in his life. He would carry bookmarked law books in his car to show the officer. I don't think he ever got a ticket that he didn't beat.
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:24   #243
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Exactly right, and far more appropriate than demanding that everyone else pay so as to meet your risk tolerance level.

We all make our own risk assessment, and make choices to mitigate those risks we deem significant. If part of your assessment is that the risk is significant that you will incur a loss from someone who will not recompense you for their negligent behaviour, then you need to do something. Buying uninsured insurance (or whatever it’s called) is very cheap, and is usually part of any comprehensive insurance package. It’s cheap (even cheaper than liability insurance) b/c the risk is vanishingly small.
Mike, my boat liability coverage is $41 per annum. Btw, I think you were talking about, 'Uninsured Motorist'.
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:31   #244
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Mike, my boat liability coverage is $41 per annum. Btw, I think you were talking about, 'Uninsured Motorist'.


And this tells us all we need to know about the real risk involved.

'Uninsured Motoristí Ö yes, except in this case it would be uninsured boaterists I guess
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:43   #245
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Exactly right, and far more appropriate than demanding that everyone else pay so as to meet your risk tolerance level.

We all make our own risk assessment, and make choices to mitigate those risks we deem significant. If part of your assessment is that the risk is significant that you will incur a loss from someone who will not recompense you for their negligent behaviour, then you need to do something. Buying uninsured insurance (or whatever itís called) is very cheap, and is usually part of any comprehensive insurance package. Itís cheap (even cheaper than liability insurance) b/c the risk is vanishingly small.


Someone who causes damage or injury is responsible for compensation to the extend possible. Since personal funds are typically limited this means liability insurance is required to achieve acceptable compensation limits.

People who cause damage but can't pay for it are im my view not acting responsible. People who go uninsured are doing so at the cost & risk of others.

Of course its possible to insure against uninsured offenders, but it should not be necessary in the first place. Its the victim paying his own damage instead of the offender.
This practice seems to be the reality in the US, but this doesn't make it right.
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:48   #246
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Of course its possible to insure against uninsured offenders, but it should not be necessary in the first place. Its the victim paying his own damage instead of the offender.
This practice seems to be the reality in the US, but this doesn't make it right.
You still didn't answer about the millionare (who you claimed is "ok" to self insure) hitting the billionare, and causing far more damage than he can afford.
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Old 22-02-2018, 16:53   #247
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Someone who causes damage or injury is responsible for compensation to the extend possible. Since personal funds are typically limited this means liability insurance is required to achieve acceptable compensation limits.

People who cause damage but can't pay for it are im my view not acting responsible. People who go uninsured are doing so at the cost & risk of others.

Of course its possible to insure against uninsured offenders, but it should not be necessary in the first place. Its the victim paying his own damage instead of the offender.
This practice seems to be the reality in the US, but this doesn't make it right.
Rabbi, weíve already danced this dance, so I wonít restate my arguments. But whatever our perspectives, the reality is you need to buy uninsured boaterist insurance. You may not like it, but given your apparent risk tolerance, and the current state of things, this is your best option.
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Old 22-02-2018, 17:07   #248
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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You still didn't answer about the millionare (who you claimed is "ok" to self insure) hitting the billionare, and causing far more damage than he can afford.
I thought I did answer already, but maybe not.

I think someone who is capable of making good damage up to 10 millions (insured or deep pockets) is acting more responsible than someone who can make good only 5k of damage.


There will always be limits to what is possible to compensate, even for insurance. We will never cover every possible claim, but I think if we can make good 10 million claims we are covering maybe 99% or 99,9% of all claims.

Is 10 Mil a required minimum? or 1 Mill? or more? No clue.
The exact limit is debatable, but I certainly vote for mandatory liability with a minimum coverage.
Italy has set this to 6 millions. Greece has 500k for damage and 500k for each victim.

I think this really is a US specific problem. Over here this is simply no option to go uninsured and I prefer this over the "freedom of doing harm without compensation".
So maybe I should just leave this to US folks.
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Old 22-02-2018, 17:11   #249
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Rabbi, weíve already danced this dance, so I wonít restate my arguments. But whatever our perspectives, the reality is you need to buy uninsured boaterist insurance. You may not like it, but given your apparent risk tolerance, and the current state of things, this is your best option.
Yea, we have been there before.

But acctually i don't have to buy this. This makes only sense if I go somewhere where a significant portion of boaters is uninsured. In the Med this is simply not the case.
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Old 22-02-2018, 17:25   #250
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Yea, we have been there before.

But acctually i don't have to buy this. This makes only sense if I go somewhere where a significant portion of boaters is uninsured. In the Med this is simply not the case.
Actually, if you have your boat insured, liability is usually included, at least in the US. Shalom shalom. Perfect peace Rabbi.
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Old 22-02-2018, 17:29   #251
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

Hmm...

After I supplied the legal citations, I haven't heard back from anyone that consider driving or traveling in the US a 'privilege' of citizenship.
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Old 22-02-2018, 17:31   #252
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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Yea, we have been there before.

But acctually i don't have to buy this. This makes only sense if I go somewhere where a significant portion of boaters is uninsured. In the Med this is simply not the case.
And no doubt this is part of of the reason uninsured boater insurance is so very cheap Ö far cheaper than even liability. The vast majority do carry insurance. From what Iíve read here on this thread, liability insurance is not legally mandated anywhere. But it is defecto required in many places b/c marinas demand it.

Personally, I have never been asked for proof of insurance for short-term marina stays, but I donít go to many marinas. The last two yacht clubs I belonged to did require it. My current club only ďsuggestsĒ having liability, but this is in Newfoundland where people mostly still manage to sort things out amongst themselves without running to courts or authorities.

In that insurance survey I did last year 9% of respondents reported having no insurance. It wasnít a great survey, but it gives some sense of things.

http://helplink.com/CLAFC/wp-content...ility-only.pdf

And here is the full report:

http://helplink.com/CLAFC/wp-content...nce-report.pdf
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Old 22-02-2018, 18:20   #253
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

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I thought I did answer already, but maybe not.

I think someone who is capable of making good damage up to 10 millions (insured or deep pockets) is acting more responsible than someone who can make good only 5k of damage.
I guess then, the more money you have, the more responsible you are.
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There will always be limits to what is possible to compensate, even for insurance. We will never cover every possible claim, but I think if we can make good 10 million claims we are covering maybe 99% or 99,9% of all claims.

Is 10 Mil a required minimum? or 1 Mill? or more? No clue.
The exact limit is debatable, but I certainly vote for mandatory liability with a minimum coverage.
Italy has set this to 6 millions. Greece has 500k for damage and 500k for each victim.
Numbers are arbitrary. It is unreasonable to push your expensive and excessive lifestyle onto others. 500k for a damage claim on a boat is obscene.

Quote:

I think this really is a US specific problem. Over here this is simply no option to go uninsured and I prefer this over the "freedom of doing harm without compensation".
So maybe I should just leave this to US folks.
How is it US specific? You don't need insurance anywhere in the world.

I think it's pretty obvious I can sail in europe if I want to without insurance, I know plenty of people who have. Although I do not do this, I also know plenty of people who make fake insurance so they can stay in marinas.
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Old 22-02-2018, 18:31   #254
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

"plenty of people who make fake insurance so they can stay in marinas"????

In the USA that is known as insurance fraud, and if caught, the penalties can include prison. I'm pretty sure it's illegal around the world.
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Old 23-02-2018, 01:14   #255
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Re: Should there be mandatory liability insurance for boats?

I learned to drive on my family farm's land from age 11 onward, so by the time I was 16 I had many hundreds of hours under my belt.

'49 Land Rover, perfect way to learn.

Absolutely no license required until you want to get on a government road.
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