Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

[sparrowhawk1]

3 more benefits to having a motorized dinghy. .. It allows you to set anchors in conditions that you couldn't possibly row them out. It allows you to hip tow the mother vessel, my 8 horsepower outboard can push my 12 ton sailboat at 4 knots in choppy seas. ( I might have had some stern current.) it opens up where you can anchor. If you have to haul water by dinghy....

[w1651]

Originally Posted by boatman61

+A1... and look like your enjoying life.. a smile is worth a 1000 words..

Boatman once I get out of this rat race you won't be able to get a smile off my face with a left hook.

[w1651]

Going back to san francisco... there was enough free food being thrown in the dumpster every week to support 3x the number of people anchored there. I doubt much has changed. In wellington I found enough food in the dumpster to support at least 50 people, and I was the only person anchored in the harbor at the time.

I try to never say never but if I catch myself in this position I'm heading home to the States or the nearest gov office for a work permit.

[Capt Rottnest]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

..

You don't need an engine. In fact, they are destroying the world and serve no useful purpose at all. I can attest to this as I reach the same location as any boat with an engine, without using one. I may arrive a few hours later, but I haven't wasted any time at all.


About

Thanks BA, I like reading the minimalist point of view, its more interesting. I tried reading cruising books of well heeled sailors and can't get past the first few pages (from boredom).
Engines may be a luxury, but I find they obey the law of diminishing returns. A minimalist engine setup is a big step up in comfort from completely engineless. We have a tiny outboard in a well to push a 35' boat, great for docking and making the last mile upwind into port or anchorage. Going a lot more extravagant (inboard diesel) wouldn't give us much more. We have sails for that..

[seandepagnier]

A few notes: malaysia is considered a first world country. In any case, there is only one world so I'm not entirely sure what this means. At $500 a month (I am spending $200 in malaysia $100 philippines, $50 vanuatu) I could cruise in nearly any country, but there are several I would choose to avoid for other reasons.

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

would be impossible to do without an engine.

That's what they told me for a lot of bar entrances in new zealand. It isn't actually true.

I've also sailed for days to cover a distance that I could have motored in a few hours.

I have sailed for a week to cover 100 miles, what is your point?

On the East Coast the holding isn't always that good so before I can go to sleep I need to make sure my anchor is well set, the only way I know of doing that is with an engine.

You can simply use the sails to do the same thing you are using the engine for. If you are claiming to arrive with too little wind for this and that the wind will come up above 30 knots when you are sleeping or something (extremely rare scenario).. then just set an anchor alarm, in the unlikely even it goes off, you will wake up and raise the sails and move then.

You can also dive on the anchor as an alternative option, but this is not technically ever needed.

I totally agree that comparing a 3-minute motor to a 10 minute row the engine is ridiculous. but there are anchorages that the current is so strong ( in Key West for example ) that if you're rowing and the tide is going the wrong direction you have to wait for the tide to change to go back to your boat. You can easily spend an hour rowing or more. It's all about balance

So in this case, you wait for the tide. What is the problem there? The tide is a great advantage as it helps you travel quickly to your boat. Also, keep in mind I can row my kayak 5 knots and sail up to 9 knots. Also in most of these cases, you can land the dingy elsewhere and walk along shore.

Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1

3 more benefits to having a motorized dinghy. .. It allows you to set anchors in conditions that you couldn't possibly row them out. It allows you to hip tow the mother vessel, my 8 horsepower outboard can push my 12 ton sailboat at 4 knots in choppy seas. ( I might have had some stern current.) it opens up where you can anchor. If you have to haul water by dinghy....

When do you need to row out an anchor? The only time I have done this is running aground so I can pull off. What conditions can you not row in? full storm? Above 40 knots and I can no longer row against the wind, this happened to me twice in new zealand below the 40'th parallel. You normally should already have the anchor set before this or you made a mistake already.

I haul water by kayak sometimes, using the sail. Last time the water was 2 miles away, it didn't seem far and took me less than 1 hour round trip.

Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest

Thanks BA, I like reading the minimalist point of view, its more interesting. I tried reading cruising books of well heeled sailors and can't get past the first few pages (from boredom).
Engines may be a luxury, but I find they obey the law of diminishing returns. A minimalist engine setup is a big step up in comfort from completely engineless. We have a tiny outboard in a well to push a 35' boat, great for docking and making the last mile upwind into port or anchorage. Going a lot more extravagant (inboard diesel) wouldn't give us much more. We have sails for that..

Yes, well, if you are talking about convenience, a few miles or so, I used to have electric outboards which worked until a few months ago (corrosion issues and water got inside) which could push the boat 2 knots at 150 watts of power for a homemade unit with gears using Turnigy L5055A-400 Brushless Outrunner 400kv, or 3 knots takes about 300 watts, can go up to 4 knots using more power, but I would never need to run so fast. In this case, it can easily be powered from solar without battery drain and continue to charge at the same time, or at night, for 12 hours on battery power without issues (motored 15 miles one time in dead calm). Also the same outboard works to push a kayak 4 knots using little power. For a 35' boat you might consider dual units or a slightly larger motor etc.. You have more space for more solar panels and batteries though.

The engine might make your think you are more comfortable, but is not needed and technically obsolete and inferior to electric drive systems anyway. if you are making your own fuel, I have no complaints but otherwise, you are destroying the future hope for all of humanity which simply isn't acceptable on the basis of "comfort"

[sailorchic34]

Well ok, there appears to be a point that even I don't go below. I've yet to dumpster dive for food. I'm silly that way. Even if its wasteful, I prefer my food slightly fresher.

Though I have a handful of things reclaimed on the boat from dumpster diving, from a wicker basket that holds clean towels, to an old dinghy rudder I use as a cubby door. But Food, hum, guess I'm just too high maintenance.

I do like my little purple diesel engine too to get me some places quicker if the winds are calm or on the nose. Yes it uses diesel which is refined from naturally bio degraded petroleum from creatures past. So its 100 percent natural.

Not all of us have the desire or strength to sail engine less. Needless to say, my using 10 gallons of diesel a month, will make no difference in anything.

Yes I do sail on and off anchor too but not all the time. Sailing up wind down a narrow river, short tacking, is not my idea of a fun time.

Gee I feel so rich, living on $500 a month. Thank you BA for showing me how well off I am.

[Ballenxj]

Originally Posted by CaptForce

I guess I could be happier with the "less" that is mine, but I've never had "more" so it's hard to judge.

You two are Blessed that you found each other. Nothing else should matter, except maybe your Boat.

[onestepcsy37]

boat_alexandra, i'm adding you to the list of people, along with sailorchic34, that i'm going to read through all their previous posts.

i have dumpster dived. my best find was a couple of almost new explorer charts for the bahamas....

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by w1651

Going back to san francisco... there was enough free food being thrown in the dumpster every week to support 3x the number of people anchored there. I doubt much has changed. In wellington I found enough food in the dumpster to support at least 50 people, and I was the only person anchored in the harbor at the time.

I try to never say never but if I catch myself in this position I'm heading home to the States or the nearest gov office for a work permit.

SF?: Be sure to wear a flower in yer hair.

"wellington" ... NZ ? From FL? When did that happen? Wish you'd had a SPOT so we could have kibutzed a bit.

Cap, I remember when you signed on CF. You didn't know spit from Shinola. Remember when you were going to run all lines with the same color? And I think you were using nylon fer halyards? Are you really saying you sailed from FL west coast thru Panama in the last year or so to NZ and didn't mention it til now?

Sorry man, I don't effing believe it...and don't Bogart that joint my friend.

Gentlemen and the occasional slumming lady: Could we PLEASE omit references to how good or excessive the food is at the Dempsey Diner? Even if true, which I doubt, nobody here wants to hear it.

Where is a lightning strike when we need one?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by weavis

SNIP

Its not going to be cheap. You WILL pay $200+ a night because that is what they charge in season.....

SNIP

I am not sure about anyone else's definition of cruising but spending two hundred plus dollars a night is not my definition of cruising. I would bet I have not spent three hundred dollars for fuel in the year and a half I have been living on my boat and sailing it in the Keys. I shop at Publix or Winn-Dixie at slightly higher prices than on the mainland. It costs something like five dollars per person to enter Dry Tortugas, but places like Boca Grande and the Marquesas are free to anchor. Fairly easy to catch fish or dive for lobster. Water is five cents a gallon.

If you head up to Miami or Ft. Lauderdale you could probably spend two hundred dollars a night and more.

But I would not go to Miami on a bet.

[Capt Rottnest]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

...
Yes, well, if you are talking about convenience, a few miles or so, I used to have electric outboards which worked until a few months ago (corrosion issues and water got inside) which could push the boat 2 knots at 150 watts of power for a homemade unit with gears using Turnigy L5055A-400 Brushless Outrunner 400kv, or 3 knots takes about 300 watts, can go up to 4 knots using more power, but I would never need to run so fast. In this case, it can easily be powered from solar without battery drain and continue to charge at the same time, or at night, for 12 hours on battery power without issues (motored 15 miles one time in dead calm). Also the same outboard works to push a kayak 4 knots using little power. For a 35' boat you might consider dual units or a slightly larger motor etc.. You have more space for more solar panels and batteries though.

The engine might make your think you are more comfortable, but is not needed and technically obsolete and inferior to electric drive systems anyway. if you are making your own fuel, I have no complaints but otherwise, you are destroying the future hope for all of humanity which simply isn't acceptable on the basis of "comfort"

Electric drive sounds nice, but keeping batteries topped up is an issue & we don't even have electric propulsion.

Can't say I do anything with "saving the planet" in mind. Living by such far flung principles is a waste of time. Do what works for you and what's socially acceptable to others around you, but thinking not burning a bit of petroleum is saving "the future hope for all of humanity" is kidding yourself. They aren't going to give a damn what you do.

PS, buying all those lead batteries only encourage lead mining, we have a whole town (Esperance) in this state which poisoned itself from lead dust blowing about the port loading facility.

Save the world. Don't go electric!

[StuM]

> PS, buying all those lead batteries only encourage lead mining, we have a whole town (Esperance) in this state which poisoned itself from lead dust blowing about the port loading facility.

And have you seen what the rare earth mining for those panels has done to the environment?

[Blue Crab]

I'd like to retract most of post #1044. I had overlooked the obvious fact that some of us go sailing. More power to ya w1651.

[David_Old_Jersey]

As said (numerous times) this thread is mostly not about literally living on a $500 a month budget (would exclude those on $501 and $499 ) - but is about helping those living on a low budget, on ideas to mull over and encouragement to at least try for self. No easy answers here - just like life.

Low budget = hard choices, lots of them ........some can do that and still enjoy life , others (most?) cannot. No right or wrong.

Btw, for cheap in Europe go inland!...... Up the canals.......unless you have too much draft (its that choices thing again!).

[seandepagnier]

Both lead acid batteries and PV solar panels are a reasonable technology to consider because 97% of the materials can be recycled at end of life. If you burn a fuel, it is gone forever.

By burning 10 gallons a month or whatever does make a big difference. The average person on this planet uses far less than this figure. There is simply not enough resources for this level of consumption to continue, and it really is too much. 1 liter per person per year is a more reasonable figure.

Every millisecond we can delay the changing effects of the environment is critical at this stage. By making the choice to not use an engine, will also affect the future decisions of other people which has an even greater effect. Any improvement no matter how small is worthwhile.