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Old 05-04-2020, 11:52   #16
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

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Asked which I would get to live on for 6 months at a time? I would save up a bit more and get a Lagoon 440, even an ex charter one, some in Europe around your budget, sail around the med, bring it back to USA on an ARC Rally - have a blast - might have to wait a while for the vaccine to be developed. Your mountain man will love the fly bridge, great views.
You won't be sailing around the Mediterranean anytime soon
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Old 05-04-2020, 12:07   #17
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Generally it seems it's easy for inexperienced sailors to sail a Cat than a large monohull and that may have something to do with so many first time sailors owning a catamaran as their first boat.

Personally I think the Lagoon 38 makes an ideal boat for a couple in the Caribbean. Sure you could own a larger one but our view is that this cat works very well for its size. That plus you could buy one on your budget but as others have said you'll need a substantial kitty to outfit it.

Remember your not crossing oceans and most Caribbean cruising is not much different than coastal sailing so you can certainly get by without half the stuff people these days consider essential.

You'll have just as much fun and less headaches if your boat is kept on the simple side plus if you can keep the weight down it might even sail not that bad.
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Old 05-04-2020, 12:17   #18
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

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Hi all,

My husband and I are getting serious about our long time dream of getting a catamaran and starting to cruise. I grew up sailing monohulls and boating in Florida, but he is a mountain man and only sailed for the first time a few months ago.

We are interested in a catamaran for mostly coastal cruising, living on it about half of the year out of North Carolina and Florida. I think we should err on the smaller side for maneuverability and speed (like a Lagoon 38?), but he says the bigger the better!

Would love to hear from this community what boat you would recommend for new boat owners who want to be safe, be (semi) comfortable, and have fun for about 200 (we have considered the cost of dockage and maintenance in this). And any other advice you might have for folks just getting into sailing.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Kelly
Hey Kelly, Welcome to the forum. There's a completely refitted 2005 Knysna 44 for sale in Fiji for about your budget. These boats are South African built (which means they can handle just about anything) If I were in the market right now I'd snap this one up in a heartbeat. Check it out on Yatch World. This would be overkill for coastal cruising and Bahama runs. Maybe what you really need is a Gemini. While not considered blue water cruisers (like the Knysnas) they can be had in Florida for less than 50 grand and would be fine for your current needs. Just because you have a big budget doesn't mean you have spend it all (at least until you're sure your husband is into cruising)
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Old 05-04-2020, 12:50   #19
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Hobie Bravo with a Cal 48 to carry it.
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Old 05-04-2020, 13:21   #20
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

You didn't say much about your skill and experience level but said your husband basically had none. It will be nearly impossible to get insurance for any cruising, except maybe just local outings in protected waters, without years of open-ocean experience under your belt or having someone one on board and on the insurance policy who has these qualifications.

You could by a boat for cash and skip the insurance but if you need to finance the purchase all lenders require full coverage for the geographical areas and type of sailing you intend to do. You will also be required to show valid insurance coverage for entry into the territorial waters of most foreign countries and dockage at most marinas, domestic and foreign.

My coverage (47' Cat), for example, covers all areas of the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean except those listed as "no go" by the US State Dept. which include Cuba, Venezuela, Haiti and parts of Columbia. If I wanted to cross the Atlantic or go through the Panama Canal into the Pacific I would have to request a rider to my existing policy for that.
But good luck, you can do it if you have the time and patience to properly prepare.
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Old 05-04-2020, 13:42   #21
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

See what I said 2pages ago. Everyone has an opinion, none of which matter to a guy who doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.
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Old 05-04-2020, 15:05   #22
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Personally, IMHO I would strongly consider a monohull motorsailer if I were you. You can motor more than sail while your husband hones his sailing skills, and you can find many that are very sea kindly when under sail alone so you don't have to guzzle fuel during long passages. Most of the over 40' motorsailers I've looked at have stable living platforms and superior accommodation. And unless you're living on the hook, finding moorage will be a little less challenging with a monohull.

Oh. And since you asked. A Balinese. And you'll still have over $249k left to spend on a boat.
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Old 05-04-2020, 15:37   #23
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

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You won't be sailing around the Mediterranean anytime soon

Or even the USA, or any where else for that matter with many ports and borders and even state lines closing , I did say subject to a Vaccine being developed.
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Old 05-04-2020, 16:00   #24
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

I would highly consider chartering a couple catamaran first. Lagoon 380's are a known quantity. Voyages and Leopards are very nice also, but some people do find the low bridge deck clearance to be annoying in heavy chop and waves, when it slaps the bridge deck. Since you live near the ICW, being able to take advantage of it in inclement weather is a big plus, so stay under 65' of mast, above the water. Bigger is not always better. Dockage, cruising fees, yard bailout fees all go up with increasing size. Also, all the sailing and anchoring hardware increase in size and weight. Consider if you can operate the boat yourself if your husband becomes incapacitated.
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Old 05-04-2020, 16:02   #25
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Length helps with safety & speed. 45ft + seems to be the magic number.
I’d much prefer a less roomy catamaran that sails well and has sufficient bridge deck clearance than a houseboat but if you’re happier at anchor maybe that’s not so important.
While they look huge on the hard stand and when you first start, there is not much difference manoevering a 50ft cat to a 40 ft one. Try a few, get a feel for each brands pros & cons before you jump in. Buy one in the best possible condition you can and even then expect that the ongoing costs and maintenance will be substantial. But worth it !
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Old 05-04-2020, 16:12   #26
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

LOOK at post #2

Until you personally set foot on these boats and understand how they sail/feel, the space, learn all the systems ect... you will no doubt be guessing with no clue what you want/need.
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Old 05-04-2020, 17:48   #27
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Kelly, I am strictly a coastal sailor also. I politely say to you and your hubby that you need to get some experience before laying your hard earned nest egg into a boat. Boats are one of the hardest things on this planet to sale. Yes they can be sold if all the stars align in the right quadrant. What you buy a boat for and what it sales for can be very different things. I guess I am just saying be very careful with money... easy to blow and hard to come by. The joke everyone knows on this forum is this: BOAT= an acronym that means ‘Bring On Another Thousand’. Kelly, you will soon understand that it is painfully... the truth. Boats are ridiculously expensive. How handy are you and the hubby with doing many repairs, maintenance, and installations? If not... what a steep learning curve you have. Anything can be done if you have the will, time, and money.

Cats, and I am am a multihull sailor, are very wide. Which creates docking expenditures. You are now working with two wetted hulls with all that entails. Two engines, props, sail drives (usually), below the waterline maintenance and anti fouling. You have to be aware ... VERY... of bridge deck clearances. You have no idea what it is like to slam that bridge deck into the waves every 30 seconds or less. It is misery I can’t even explain. Once you’ve experienced you will never want that shizzle again.

Cats and trimarans do not have lead keels for counterbalance of rigging aloft. They use the beam of the boat for counterbalance. Which means they can be blown over in certain sea/ wind states. Monos just heel over. It means that you have less time to react to microbursts and unsettled weather. You must be more conservative and be mindful at all times of cat’s Achille’s hill... capsize. Everything in the sailing world is compromise.

The more stuff you bring into a multihull the worse it will perform. Weight is very important.

The beauty of Multis is their spaciousness and shallow draft. With my centerboard up and rudder canted up I can draw less than two foot. For exploring and getting to where mono’s can only get to with their dingy... it is the heaven.

I would like you to think about cheaper cats that many coastal sailors love and it won’t cost you an arm and both legs. Look at used Gemini and PDQ. They are perfect for the coastal, Bahama, and Keyes.

I have one other suggestion. My approach ... because I know my age and finances would allow me to do it more comfortably... think about trailering a boat. Why? Because you can trailer that boat to any place you want at 65 mph ... even against current and prevailing wind. Drop her in and explore for a day, week, or months. Haul her out and store her. I keep my boat down in San Carlos Mexico on a trailer. You don’t have a boat sitting in brine growing beards that have to be shaved every month or so. Don’t have to antifoul every season or every couple of years. Pull your boat out and rinse. Or because she is shallow draft... scrub her on the beach at low tide while you down your Cold Corona. If I want to sail Sea of Cortez for a couple of months I’ll do it. Weather is now June and getting too hot for an old guy. Spend a day getting boat ready for transportation mode. Drive for 3-4 days over to the Chesapeake Bay and splunk around their for a month. Take her through the canals up to Lake Ontario and play around till late August. Drive truck and trailer that was stored in Maryland up to closest haul out to the boat. Drive boat back to California and sail the delta region on the north eastern edge of San Francisco Bay.

I just sailed three -four premiere sailing areas in one year. Due to transportation advantages that a monohull/ multihull, not on a trailer, will never have. My boat is spartan compared to the fat cats or sleek monos. But they will never be able to cover the ground I do.

I have a lavac toilet, propane stove, sink with pump water, Engel 12 volt fridge that I use as a freezer and a 30 gallon Yeti that I use as a cold box. I have a 10 hp outboard.

Listen... I’m not saying my set up is for everyone. Some people need a separate refridge in the cockpit just to keep their Chardonnay cool. There are people with very large bank acct who sail million dollar cats on YouTube with their model trophy wife, and then there are ordinary folk who get by somehow. There are many ways to skin a cat. Smile
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Old 05-04-2020, 19:23   #28
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

Kelly, let me expand that last suggestion a little more. When you have a mono or multi living in the water year round... your bank Acct is drained constantly by berthing your boat. Sitting in the water 24/7 you have kinds of things like growth, electrolysis, sun damage, motor issues and prop issues with being in the salt. The salty moisture plays havoc with everything electronic. You pay insurances up the yang. You pay extra fees for state licenses that you don’t pay for smaller trailerable boats. In fact I pay zero for insurance.

If my motor has problems I unbolt it and take it to an outboard shop. Try getting a diesel mechanic in a hurry... I can buy a new outboard for 2500 dollars and it will last me easily 15 years. It cost me less than a hundred dollars a year. In fact last season I spent about 70 dollars for lube oil in the drive leg, new engine oil in the head, and a new in line fuel filter. Every couple of years I will change the impeller. Because my boat is a true sailor, I used less than 6 gallons of gas on my last trip. After 3-4 seasons I will change the impeller, plug, in line filters, etc. If you have a diesel mechanic on board for an hour you will understand the beauty of outboards.
Are they as efficient as diesel? No. Do they cavitate in big swells ? No Sailors learn how to take care of their diesels. Have nothing against diesels. My outboard weighs less than hundred lbs. all in. Diesel with sea cocks, heat exchanges, drive shafts, struts, tranny. 200-300+ lbs.

Take a look at Corsairs or Farrier trimarans. There are also Condors and other trimarans. There are even Wharram cats that are demountable. Other basic cats like Simpson come on the market now and again. Not trailerable.

Really think long and hard about cash needed to boat. Taxes and insurance, maintenance, upgrades, mooring , better to go smaller and not get strung out on the cash outlay. Boating for me is about exploring where few people can go. It is exciting and unbelievably beautiful. Our blue planet is so lovely. Be smart. Go smaller.
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Old 05-04-2020, 19:53   #29
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

An advantage of an older Leopard 38 is most have newer engines and straight shaft drives not sail drive. large shower room.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:42   #30
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Re: Seeking advice: if you had $250k to spend on a cat, which one would you get?

https://nessmatt14.wixsite.com/lagooncruisingcatama

Pretty close to your price.
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