Seeing the World on a Pension

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Sorry you feel that way...let me break it down a little more for you:

The route you suggested is common to people with no experience who think hugging the coast is the safest option. Coastal cruising is often much more challenging than open ocean. The route you suggested is among the most challenging coastal cruising in the world. California to Alaska is challenging but can be done if you are patient. After that the level of challenge goes up dramatically and you add in Russia & China where getting permission to cruise is a challenge. Even Japan & Korea aren't really on the normal cruising circuit. The entire route, you are going against the prevailing current and often against the wind...there's a lot of reasons that someone with even a modest background would not consider this route...hence the reasonable assumption that you are very early in the process of figuring out how cruising works.

Cruising books can provide some information (Cornell's Cruising Routes is a good one for general routing) but books tend to get updates only once every several years so detailed information tends to be out of date (generic routes rarely change but info on ease of entry and flexibility entering countries often changes...particularly after the current virus issues settle).

Also if you only read 2-3 books, you will be heavily influenced by the author's bias. Some of the ones I read before we got out cruising, I now consider junk based on actual experience.

By reading a dozen or two blogs, you get more up to date information and you get differing perspectives helping you get a better data set to assess the best options. Noonsite.com is a great clearing house largely populated with info from those same cruisers who are out doing it now but the format may be more challenging for someone unfamiliar with the typical routes. By following a blog, you see the route they followed.

This is much more helpful thank you. So that we can be on the same page, I am 3 years and into about my 15th book on the subject but so far my knowledge has been focused on the boats themselves, living aboard, and provisioning for the cruise. All good information but otherwise limited in perspective.

So that leaves me to the route. Thank you all for stopping me from doing the ring of fire in the wrong direction. That said, I will reconsider which direction we go. My chief concern with starting on the East coast is with Hurricane Season. I am however finding that the East Coast is much better suited as a starting point with regards to cost. Which brings me to the next and most important question.

Where are the affordable places if any on the east coast to live about? Is there a blog or a podcast you can point me to that discusses these? So far the only podcasts I have been able to find are from a couple of lifelong sailors constantly praising themselves. Again not helpful.

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

+1 Everything Valhalla said and you want to do it on a catamaran. Just screams that you have absolutely no idea.

Please read and do LOTS more sailing!

Not trying to be a jerk, but yes, you don't know what you don't know.

Keep perservering, though, if you're not starting tomorrow, you've got time to learn.

Try Paul and Cheryl Shard on Distant Shores:

https://distantshores.ca/

Warmly,
LitteWing77

Not saying I know everything there is to know, far from it. What I was implying is that the information itself wasn't helpful. If I need to check out a blog, then recommend a blog as you did. I will get to the boat in later posts. Right now its about the route, the timing of the route, and prepping for the cost. Lesson learned on my end.... ask more concise questions.

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

He has 7000 posts, you have three. You have no experience either with sailing or global weather or international travel. He knows that much since you admitted it.

I find his suggestion to be very good- real and varied insights, and not a boring monologue book.

This forum is inundated with dreamers who suddenly want to go sailing around the world. Most never do, which is just as well. If you are serious I recommend taking advice from those wiser and more experienced.

And I look forward to further discussions with him, you and others.

[a64pilot]

Maybe better said that S Fl in “season” is a very expensive place to live, usually out of season is much less expensive. Personally I don’t mind S Fl in Summer so much, but in cooler months it’s full of people that I’d rather avoid and the prices are excessive.
Panhandle of Fl is much less expensive living, but it’s also a long way to the Caribbean too, and to live inexpensively, you need to be able to tolerate “southerners” cause let me tell you, Panhandle is full of them.
Then there are Hurricane’s to think about, many live in ignorance of them and just hope this year won’t be the year, the bravest haven’t been through one, once you have, you learn to respect them or become afraid of them, depending on how close one came to you.
Now, just us but way up river in Jacksonville ticks many of our boxes, we hope about as safe as you can get Hurricane wise in Fl, and very easy to evac from if needed but still close to the Bahama’s and the rest of the Caribbean. Prices are in between S Fl and the Panhandle, but it’s a big town with big town amenities if that’s important to you.
Brunswick Ga is OK, good Marina, town leaves a lot to be desired though, but it’s outside of the Hurricane box for most Insurence.
Further North I have no knowledge.
But I feel East coast living is cheaper than California, and there is a whole lot more easy sailing. Bahama’s is very good and very easy sailing, great winds almost every day and usually small waves in shallow warm water and no real passages, you can go everywhere in day sails. Good place to make mistakes as most are easily recovered from here, two weeks from anywhere in cold water and rough conditions, not so much.

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by flyingnut40

Dbrothers,


I tried to prepare you for the type of responses that such NOOB questions would likely bring..... however, virtually ALL of the advice so far has been spot on, including mine!



It is obvious that you are an almost complete NOOB, and that's O.K. , everyone has to learn and if you stick with us, there is a wealth of experience here for you.



What I did not anticipate, but I give you the benefit of doubt until you show otherwise, is HOW EASILY you took offense to Vahalla who actually HAS experience YOU NEED!



I could go on, but suffice to say that getting pissed at people who, for the most part, only mean the best by taking their time to respond in the hopes of helping YOU is not useful.


Further aggression will will cause lots of very good people to hit the ignore button and the only looser is you. I know this group and they will continue to offer their insights if you could be just a little bit kinder.


If the emperor is standing in front of you naked, NOBODY needs to be told he has NO clothes. You are a NOOB, and you haven't done a ton of reading and your nakedness shows..... sorry if that truth hurts. We can fix that....


Changing gears, here's an olive branch I offer you.....


Why a cattlemaran???? Those things are meant for a dozen of your closest friends to rent for a week in the Caribbean or Med for a drunkfest. Vast majority of real travellers will be on a monohull, with the bonus that the $200K you dont spend on the cat will carry you for your first 10 to 20 years of cruising..... a win - win!!


Insert response here..... mouse on ignore button.....


Respectfully, Dennis

So to clarify, The bluntness of the response with no guidance is why I got offended. It really doesn't have anything to do with him personally. My experience on other message boards is that there are always those with ego's who just want to criticize others because they are new rather than offer out helpful information, the curtness of the response let me to believe that he was another one of those. Now I know better. (and feel like a complete moron to boot).

The choice on the catamaran is two fold. One, I am a very tall guy so having the headroom and space to move is important. The second reason is for the speed. Granted a cruising cat isn't as fast as racing sailboat, far from it I know but from what I have read so far, they are easier to cruise at 6 to 7 knots under moderate conditions which makes it a little more likely of getting around bad weather patterns. Well that is the thought anyway.

Not adverse to a monohull. Far from it actually but I have to find one with good beam and headroom so that the long days out at sea do not feel claustrophobic. I have quite a few years on Naval Ships so I have seen what the Atlantic has to offer. The wife is in love with the idea of the Catamaran so getting here interested in a monohull is going to be difficult but I will probably work her into one as like you say, these are much more affordable.

Thank you for all of the advise so far. Looking forward to reading what everyone has to advise.

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by ATCPinto

Dbrothers:

Don't let the seemingly nasty responses from some of the members bother you. While people like Valhalla (there are many) may have thousands of posts - and yes, decades of experience - almost all of heir posts to "NOOBS" like you and I contain some sort of jab...These are the curmudgeons who feel that we are somehow invading on the life to which they, too, were once new. Continue to ask the questions because people like me may also be thinking the same thing. Somewhere in their words will be some useful wisdom, but DO NOT let their negativity distract you from your dream. I'm within 3 years of retiring on a boat to complete a life's goal of circumnavigating and continue to ask questions that are often thought of as "dumb." Most of us who have spent a life in service to others have developed the patience to mentor in a respectable way...

Anyway - keep asking the questions - other "NOOBS" are genuinely interested in what the curmudgeons might have to say...

Flyingnut40 - what the hell is a NOOB anyway? Must stand for something.

Thank you for that. Noob=Noobie. New person.

[Dbrothers]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Maybe better said that S Fl in “season” is a very expensive place to live, usually out of season is much less expensive. Personally I don’t mind S Fl in Summer so much, but in cooler months it’s full of people that I’d rather avoid and the prices are excessive.
Panhandle of Fl is much less expensive living, but it’s also a long way to the Caribbean too, and to live inexpensively, you need to be able to tolerate “southerners” cause let me tell you, Panhandle is full of them.
Then there are Hurricane’s to think about, many live in ignorance of them and just hope this year won’t be the year, the bravest haven’t been through one, once you have, you learn to respect them or become afraid of them, depending on how close one came to you.
Now, just us but way up river in Jacksonville ticks many of our boxes, we hope about as safe as you can get Hurricane wise in Fl, and very easy to evac from if needed but still close to the Bahama’s and the rest of the Caribbean. Prices are in between S Fl and the Panhandle, but it’s a big town with big town amenities if that’s important to you.
Brunswick Ga is OK, good Marina, town leaves a lot to be desired though, but it’s outside of the Hurricane box for most Insurence.
Further North I have no knowledge.
But I feel East coast living is cheaper than California, and there is a whole lot more easy sailing. Bahama’s is very good and very easy sailing, great winds almost every day and usually small waves in shallow warm water and no real passages, you can go everywhere in day sails. Good place to make mistakes as most are easily recovered from here, two weeks from anywhere in cold water and rough conditions, not so much.

Native Georgian who expatriated to California chasing a girl. Everything you mention about FL has been my experience as well. Especially concerning Brunswick. Hoping to find somewhere inside the rivers down there which may be relatively affordable or at the very least have access to the water so I can build a Pier and provision the boat from there.

The hurricanes are what makes me nervous about cruising inside the gulf of Mexico and the Islands South especially the Keys. Will eventually work my way down to Trinidad and The Dominican republic as the diving down there I hear is phenomenal. But one step at a time.

[blubaju]

my favourite blocks:
s/v Ocelot Cruising the World check their navigation!
Maxing Out - Three Generations - One Boat - One Giant Adventure

Welcome Aboard --- for openCPN navigation and Far East, Philippines in particular

If you know them don't kill me, if you dont like them - either ;-)

[hanjohuizing]

We all started somewhere and indeed it takes a very, very long time to get the experience level what is needed to undertake a journey you are looking at.
I can give you one very simple advise, start to rent a boat, maybe your beloved Catamaran, in the Caribbean or in the Med and experience yourselves what sailing is all about. If you don't like it, e.g. getting seasick all the time, there is an easy way out.
Maybe after getting some experience it is time to buy a boat yourself and carefully expand your sailing area.
Step by step, I have seen so many people failing miserably. The Sea's and Oceans are no playing grounds for newbee's, first learn and get experience before you go to the next level.
Having said that, you don't have to go around the world to enjoy sailing to have a lot of fun. There are plenty of "relatively save" area's where you can practice and enjoy your live of total freedom on a yacht.
Tip: buy a yacht from someone who started just like you and came to the conclusion that the reality of sailing was very different than the dream...those people tend to sell their boats for an attractive price to get rid of it. Good luck and happy sailing!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

North then west, not so good.....

Yep, 100% backwards to what most people would consider

[flyingnut40]

QUOTE

Not adverse to a monohull. Far from it actually but I have to find one with good beam and headroom so that the long days out at sea do not feel claustrophobic. I have quite a few years on Naval Ships so I have seen what the Atlantic has to offer. The wife is in love with the idea of the Catamaran so getting here interested in a monohull is going to be difficult but I will probably work her into one as like you say, these are much more affordable.

Thank you for all of the advise so far. Looking forward to reading what everyone has to advise.QUOTE


Much better Sir!
There are Cats that cross oceans YES, but there is no chance of recovering from a rouge wave flipping you over, where if your mast survives, the mono can usually continue on.... not withstanding broken bones and dishes. I was waiting for you to say "the wife wants a cat....." completely predictable..... but spend time on both Cat and mono before spending the extra bucks. I've never owned a cat but have learned that they have a different motion to a mono and some actually find it worse than heeling. The heeling is a safety valve that saves rig by spilling a wind burst where the cat has two options, absorb the load on the rigging (hopefully below breaking force) or lifting a hull and if it does things go to sh!t in a hurry. I can't imagine sitting on an overturned hull until rescued.

If you are on any kind of a budget (AKA pension) you can shop hard and find some pretty seaworthy monos for $30K and up..... your eyes are looking at $2-300K for those cats.... not usually where the thrifty buyers are looking. THOSE NOOBS are the ones that show up here saying I want to go sailing how should I spend my $400K?


So, a bit of hard thinking is due, if you plan on being in the Caribbean or Med most of the time, sure, cross the Atlantic in a cat to get there, but if you really do want to see the world, a mono is worth a hard look.


My $0.02 ;-)


D

[KadeyKrogen38]

I have a strong suspicion that cruising is going to be dead for at least the next couple of years until the world gets this Corona stuff under control. I know that I would not like to be out there now with ports and countries closed, many not even allowing anchoring at this time.

[DanCan]

Originally Posted by blubaju

my favourite blocks:
s/v Ocelot Cruising the World check their navigation!
Maxing Out - Three Generations - One Boat - One Giant Adventure

Welcome Aboard --- for openCPN navigation and Far East, Philippines in particular

If you know them don't kill me, if you dont like them - either ;-)

Oh, yes, I forgot! I’ve been reading Ocelot’s blog (Hacking’s blog) now that you mentioned. It is really interesting aside from the fact they’ve done it in a catamaran )
They have lots of awesome information d experience.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Dbrothers

I have been wanting to see the world on a Sailboat since I was 7 and read Treasure Island. Because I have made some good decisions in my life, fiscally it is possible provided I buy a relatively affordable boat and provision properly. There is considerable information about how to properly provision the boat, but relatively no information on where to stop along the way. The plan is to leave California and head North to Alaska, Stopping in Oregon, Washington and Canada. Follow the Alaskan Islands across to Asian Continent and heading south and working our way around the globe. So here are the questions,

Is there a resource that lists which countries are friendly to the US?
Is there a resource that lists where there are Marina's and Moorings located throughout the world where we can replenish our supplies?
Is there a resource that discusses how to contact these countries ahead of time in order to get permission to enter the country?

Ill start with this.

I may be all wet? This is the northern hemisphere and your plane would be against the prevailing current?

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by ATCPinto

Dbrothers:

Don't let the seemingly nasty responses from some of the members bother you. While people like Valhalla (there are many) may have thousands of posts - and yes, decades of experience - almost all of heir posts to "NOOBS" like you and I contain some sort of jab...These are the curmudgeons who feel that we are somehow invading on the life to which they, too, were once new. Continue to ask the questions because people like me may also be thinking the same thing. Somewhere in their words will be some useful wisdom, but DO NOT let their negativity distract you from your dream. I'm within 3 years of retiring on a boat to complete a life's goal of circumnavigating and continue to ask questions that are often thought of as "dumb." Most of us who have spent a life in service to others have developed the patience to mentor in a respectable way...

Anyway - keep asking the questions - other "NOOBS" are genuinely interested in what the curmudgeons might have to say...

Flyingnut40 - what the hell is a NOOB anyway? Must stand for something.

I agree with you on most of your points. While most of the responses are accurate as far as content, I am often shocked at the level of snarkyness that is so often thrown in on many of these post. Yes, we all start out as beginners.