Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-06-2018, 07:17   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago
Boat: AMERICAN 2+2 MINI-TON 16 FT
Posts: 30
Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Second voyage out on my 1970 American Fiberglass trailer boat. First was a disaster where I did a Jean-Claude Van Damme splits between the dock and boat and slipped and hit the boat with my butt - bruise looks like North America on the map.

Anyhow, got a small 2 hp Honda engine and wanted to check it out. That all worked fine(almost lost the engine off the mounts but grabbed it and had safety change hold it). Learned to bring a screwdriver to cinch down the motor mounts better next time (and adjust motor angle)

Real question, decided with all the learning going on to just test the motor and put up the jib sail.

Winds were maybe 3-5 mph. When sailing 90 or closer degrees to the wind, the boat felt like it was being blown sideways and the center board and rudder were having minimal effect. I had to keep moving the tiller until I ran out of tiller. Luckily, I just used the motor to get me back to the path I wanted to go.

So my real question, was this unusual or is there someting wrong or am I doing something wrong?

Next voyage I plan on using the main only.
jimTheSailorMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 07:34   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 230
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

No that is not unusual. You probably did lots of things wrong, but none that you wrote about here. Actually you did something half-right: put yourself in a learning situation and experimented. Congratulations! The second half of that is to figure out why you got the result you did. Hint: Did you sail DDW (directly down wind) with just your jib? If so, what happened?

Yes, a good next step is sailing with your mainsail only. Safety tip: do not sail DDW with your main. Before you try that or even close to DDW, get on Youtube and watch a few videos of 'unintentional' jibes (or 'accidental', or 'uncontrolled'). Then make sure you understand what causes them, how to identify when they are about to happen, and how to prevent them.
jwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 07:46   #3
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 8,954
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Another simple way to think about it is that you can use the jib to move the boat's bow off the wind (away from the wind)

Use the main (sheet in) to move the bow toward the wind.

So in this way you can actually steer the boat with just the sails if the wind is nice and steady

If there is enough wind, the sails can actually over power the rudder and hold or turn the boat regardless of where the rudder is

Also, it's best when learning to use the motor as little as possible. Just coming and going from the dock at most
thomm225 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 07:48   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago
Boat: AMERICAN 2+2 MINI-TON 16 FT
Posts: 30
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Did you sail DDW (directly down wind) with just your jib? If so, what happened?

Eventually, after running out of rudder, the boat swayed slowly downwind. I didn't really experiment with DDW just used the motor to go back to 90 degrees.

and it said to use light wind day and sail 90 to wind and turn INTO wind when turning. Due to limitations of the rudder could attempt but eventually the boat couldn't be steered into the wind - kinda stalled - then swayed back towards DDW.

I had seen the jibe stuff on Youtube and used the motor to keep things where I wanted to be but since we only had the jib up, the boom wasn't an issue.

Thanks for your reply. I have a list of issues to resolve before next time out - big ones are:

1. want to put main up in backyard a few times so I am comfortable with boom, sail and lines issues. Should this always be done at the dock or is it safe to try in the water or on dockside?

2. Motor mount, angle and safety cable squared away

3. BRING BUG SPRAY - with little wind the flies were bad on this lake.
jimTheSailorMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 07:56   #5
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 12,525
Images: 58
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Yeah I occasionally will sail out with just the jib, BUT remember the jib has very little driving horsepower compared to its effect trying to windvane the boat's bow around especially if it is sheeted in too tight. So until the the boat gets some decent speed up, she will NOT respond to the rudder trying to engage a turn. To make it work you need a good breeze and you need to start off with the jib sheets loose running off the wind a bit and then sheet them in gently as she gains speed and bring her around closer to the wind as you go. Not really a good idea in close quarters! The success of this depends on the boat's design and rig too.
Oh yeah, and jwing's warning about accidental gybing, or jibing, is a VERY important one too. A gybe preventer vang is a good idea.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 07:59   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago
Boat: AMERICAN 2+2 MINI-TON 16 FT
Posts: 30
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
Oh yeah, and jwing's warning about accidental gybing, or jibing, is a VERY important one too. A gybe preventer vang is a good idea.
Thanks.

Will post a picture of how it looks once I get the sail up in the yard. Not sure if I have one. Maybe over the weekend.
jimTheSailorMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 08:03   #7
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 8,954
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

When you have the least momentum, the sails work best for steering.
thomm225 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 08:16   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago
Boat: AMERICAN 2+2 MINI-TON 16 FT
Posts: 30
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
When you have the least momentum, the sails work best for steering.
Definitely felt like we had no momentum. Glad I had the motor to help. Will do another light wind day when I do the main.

Any suggestions for that voyage?
jimTheSailorMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:06   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,971
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Once you have some basics and the wind is light try standing next to the mast with the jib sheet in one hand and the boom in the other. On a small boat you will find you can steer and maneuver the boat by adjusting the sail angles. It's a fun training exercise but I also used to use it for docking.
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:11   #10
Registered User
 
akprb's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alaska
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 927
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

If you want to sail you need a wee bit more wind than a few knots.

Also you might enjoy learning more of the lingo. Itís part of the fun :-)

Side note jib only for nice long reaches is perfectly fine, fun and safe. Youíll find the combos that work for your boat.

Personally, on long single handed passages with a good breeze the genoa (big jib) is my preferred power source, simple and safe. The main just a hassle :-)

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DCAFDB7D-2676-49C4-AACA-0477F714259F.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	392.4 KB
ID:	171773  
akprb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:16   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 14
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

What you experienced was normal and predictable. Visualize looking down on the boat. There is a point near the center of the boat called the "center of lateral resistance". If you were to push sideways at the stern, the boat would rotate around that point; push sideways at the bow and the boat rotates in the other direction about the same point. When you were sailing on the wind with jib only, the wind was pushing the bow sideways and rotating the boat around the center of lateral resistance. It is important to use both sails to balance those lateral forces. If the wind is too much for both full sails, then reef. An exception is sailing down wind when jib only tends to pull the boat through the water and keep it more steady on course.
mikesailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:21   #12
Registered User
 
OS2Dude's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 536
Images: 5
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

I often single hand under the jib alone when I jus want to relax a little. How your boat handles that way depends on the make of your boat and the size of your jib.


One other thing you may want to do is to GOOGLE using a spring line to control your boat. We can control our boat with a single line and the engine regardless of the wind direction. Leaving/arriving is also so much easier now.
OS2Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:24   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Satellite Beach FL
Boat: Nimble 24 Tropical
Posts: 33
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Put some tell tails on the shrouds as high as you can reach (can be light yarn) and the illustration below shows where your sails should be.
I print these and give them to new sailors when I take them out, visual guides are much better than verbal.
Also, the only point that requires sails to be hauled in tight is when sailing as high as you can, other points- ease the sheets until they luft and pull in until the lufting stops.
Stay calm and enjoy it. If things get confusing, toss out the anchor and take a break.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	points-of-sail-large.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	44.6 KB
ID:	171775  
merlinuxo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 09:52   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: MD DC area/Annapolis/Baltimore
Boat: 1985 Catalina 27
Posts: 330
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesailin View Post
What you experienced was normal and predictable. Visualize looking down on the boat. There is a point near the center of the boat called the "center of lateral resistance". If you were to push sideways at the stern, the boat would rotate around that point; push sideways at the bow and the boat rotates in the other direction about the same point. When you were sailing on the wind with jib only, the wind was pushing the bow sideways and rotating the boat around the center of lateral resistance. It is important to use both sails to balance those lateral forces. If the wind is too much for both full sails, then reef. An exception is sailing down wind when jib only tends to pull the boat through the water and keep it more steady on course.
great explanation. Thanks
ferrailleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2018, 15:08   #15
Registered User

Join Date: May 2016
Location: mackay, queensland. australia
Boat: e.a jack (builder), g.l watson (designer), 6.2 mtr wll sailboat
Posts: 530
Re: Second sail - jib only - is this unusual?

sounds normal / alls fair in love, war and sailing / we run 3 headsails on furlers and a rotary reefing main / with a bit of wind she sails upwind well on her headsail / we run a DIY boom brake system on the main to prevent chinese jibes while messing around with the headsails / it is important to balance the sails so you have neutral trim(your tiller is not pulling or pushing against you) /if you have reefing points it's good to practice with a reefed main and small jib / it is easy to sail with good wind it's hard to sail in light wind / then to complicate things your hull may be affected by tide and current / good luck with your experimenting / sail safely and enjoy
knockabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
jib, sail

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
440: 440 Sailing with Jib only and no Main Sail Angels of Rio Lagoon Catamarans 84 07-03-2013 23:44
For Sale: Jib and Storm Jib BSV2 Classifieds Archive 0 16-07-2012 16:06
Sailing in Large Hail and High Wind with Only the Jib Up at 60į Doing About 8-9 Knots Ram Europe & Mediterranean 5 12-11-2011 04:46
New Jib Halyard / Jib Furler Question fsuhansell Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 10 20-07-2011 06:46
Crew Available: Unusual Couple Seek Unusual Job! Julian67 Crew Archives 0 15-02-2010 07:47

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.