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**JPA Cate** · 15-03-2017, 20:40

This is a re-post from the thread, "What To Buy In America?" I am posting it here, too because I think Mark J has some good points.

"Lots of folks recommend buying from the US/UK/Aus kids toys, sports kit, clothes, schoolbooks, fish hooks, bullets etc to give as largess to black people in remote places.

"Yes its well meaning but really screws up the local people and can even get you slotted in jail!

"You have cut out the business that normally provides these things. You have given stuff for free where no charity is needed or asked for.
Yes there are places that want and need your assistance but ruining the business of the only store on the island is not the way to do it.

"An entrepreneur brings in fish hooks at his expense to sell to local fishermen at a meager profit... and some rich fat cruiser floats in and gives $10 of hooks for $2 of fish.

"Instead of raping the only local with the fortitude to trade its much better to buy fish hooks from him and then give them away if you want.

"Same with school exercise book: buy them locally and you support the school and the island.

"As for bullets as someone suggested. That's just lunacy. Indonesia its instant jail (Aussie who was jailed there for 12 shotgun shells). I never saw a gun in the marquesas and don't k.ow what they would use them for there anyway. And why would they need .22LR?

"The Marquesas are French islands fully stocked with normal French Police with normal French handcuffs. Its not some tin-pot banana republic! Run ammunition in there? Someone must be crackers!

"Leave nothing but footprints" is cultural as well: destroying businesses; turning honest locals into hand-out mentality beggers, and teaching black children that white people really are cargo cult rich is wrong.

"In fact if you REALLY want to help communities you pass through just buy everything from them. Provision from local businesses. Give them incentive and profit instead of buying everything from your home country because you save a few measly cents.

"This thread 'What to get in America' should be answered with "Nothing! Buy everything Down Island!"

Mark''

I think everything Mark wrote is correct for the Carribbean.

Where Mark's argument breaks down for me is that the Polynesian and Melanesian cultures are great gift givers, and one is expected to reciprocate. [They treat us like visiting chiefs, who are expected to behave with great generosity.] Some of these places really don't have anywhere convenient for the subsistence farmers to shop. [The Copra boat may not have come all year, when you arrive there.] And if one wants to be culturally sensitive, one must have SOME thing to give that fits with their needs.

Jim and I have belonged to the SSCA for over 25 years now, twenty-five plus years of trying to leave a "clean wake". Somehow, this clean wake means respecting local rules and customs, even when inconvenient, and sometimes, it's tricky, partly because it means not giving too much, that raises expectations and the wake left is harder for successive cruisers. One does the best one can. Somewhere, there must be a balance. Imho it is wrong to go into these places with an entrepreneurial attitude....

Ann

Joe Saylor · 15-03-2017, 20:45

Well we certainly saw many communities in PNG ruined by the "helpful" cruisers from Cairns...

Sav · 15-03-2017, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Saylor

Well we certainly saw many communities in PNG ruined by the "helpful" cruisers from Cairns...

A cruise ship with 2,000 tourists landing in a remote south pacific island is about as likely as a Northern territory crocodile flying to the moon.

ranchero76 · 15-03-2017, 21:23

"You have cut out the business that normally provides these things. You have given stuff for free where no charity is needed or asked for."

So giving 2-nd hand t-shirt to poor people (or exchanging it for fish) on the island now called "ruining someones business"? So what's more important - helping poor people or worrying about some businessman? There's something terribly wrong with this world.

Hearts Content · 15-03-2017, 21:29

Amazon gift cards would be the best.

Pelagic · 15-03-2017, 21:44

One item that delights all ages in remote islands are those 12“ inflatable globes.

They are great for showing islanders where they are and where you live.
Takes up little room on board and always well received.

https://goo.gl/images/scFwlr

**Jim Cate** · 15-03-2017, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

One item that delights all ages in remote islands are those 12“ inflatable globes.

They are great for showing islanders where they are and where you live.
Takes up little room on board and always well received.

https://goo.gl/images/scFwlr

Great idea, Pelagic, and they take up little room before inflation, too!

Jim

Sectorsteve · 15-03-2017, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranchero76

"You have cut out the business that normally provides these things. You have given stuff for free where no charity is needed or asked for."

So giving 2-nd hand t-shirt to poor people (or exchanging it for fish) on the island now called "ruining someones business"? So what's more important - helping poor people or worrying about some businessman? There's something terribly wrong with this world.

The thing to remember is that these people have lived this way with no money for thousands of years. What do you mean by poor?
The idea that scares me, or worries me , is islanders becoming reliant and greedy for goods. Fighting amongst each other and any other negative traits that come about.
Theres a great story of Steve and Linda Dashew in the tuamotus. Steve caught a massive fish, way to much for the fmaily to eat. 1.5 metres long!
A local saw and padled up to the boat and said " Do you want a hand" Steve said sure, and they went ashore and cleaned the fish together. Steve then took a few big bits for himself his fmaily for dinner and gave the rest to the islander. He was stoked and told all his mates. See even though these guys fish, they cannot get out into deep ocean so it was a bounty for his whole family and some in the village.
The next day a few islanders paddled out to steves boat and gave them a heap of fruit. He invited the whole family over for dinner that night. 10 of them! he Kept the guitars out to inspire anyone who wanted a sing along and the islanders being great musicians sang all night. This went on for about a week!
This kind of exchange is what you want. Its beautiful and its what binds people. Monetary objects divide humans in IMO.
Just look at fiji. Go to Suva. Its changed so much. Worry on all the locals faces, parking meters, credit cards.
We definitely shouldnt be influencing the locals. Theyre already perfect and richer than we will ever be.

Pelagic · 15-03-2017, 21:55

Yes, you can by them in volume for less than $3
http://m.ebay.com/itm/361428951690

ranchero76 · 15-03-2017, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sectorsteve

The thing to remember is that these people have lived this way with no money for thousands of years. What do you mean by poor?
The idea that scares me, or worries me , is islanders becoming reliant and greedy for goods. Fighting amongst each other and any other negative traits that come about.
Theres a great story of Steve and Linda Dashew in the tuamotus. Steve caught a massive fish, way to much for the fmaily to eat. 1.5 metres long!
A local saw and padled up to the boat and said " Do you want a hand" Steve said sure, and they went ashore and cleaned the fish together. Steve then took a few big bits for himself his fmaily for dinner and gave the rest to the islander. He was stoked and told all his mates. See even though these guys fish, they cannot get out into deep ocean so it was a bounty for his whole family and some in the village.
The next day a few islanders paddled out to steves boat and gave them a heap of fruit. He invited the whole family over for dinner that night. 10 of them! he Kept the guitars out to inspire anyone who wanted a sing along and the islanders being great musicians sang all night. This went on for about a week!
This kind of exchange is what you want. Its beautiful and its what binds people. Monetary objects divide humans in IMO.
Just look at fiji. Go to Suva. Its changed so much. Worry on all the locals faces, parking meters, credit cards.
We definitely shouldnt be influencing the locals. Theyre already perfect and richer than we will ever be.

Well, I agree with all you said. I guess it's all about to be reasonable and respectful. Swapping t-shirt for fish or other simple necessities wouldn't hurt I think, and puts smile on both faces.

CLady · 16-03-2017, 01:49

White eyelet ruffle fabric for the women to sew on their brightly flowered cotton dresses, inexpensive white lightweight woven brimmed hats for the women to decorate to wear to church. These very inexpensive hats can be purchased at Asian supermarkets -- a stack of 10 them for $20- usually they very tidily stack and are made of fine monofilament type fiber loosely woven resembling a straw type hat but tidily finished to be more "dressy". Wearing white hats to church are the tradition. Then, go to church whenever you can--it's beautiful and powerful with the Polynesians. Wear a white hat if you are a female and a dress. Bolts of cotton brightly flowered fabric is also extremely appreciated! (It folds so nice and flat so is easily stowed--just keep very dry). And spools of thread. Scissors. Ribbon
For Guys--Cargo Shorts, Swim trunks, tank tops, flip flops. Rubber sheet, 1/16" thick or 1/8" thick for making gaskets for things.

**boatman61** · 16-03-2017, 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sectorsteve

The thing to remember is that these people have lived this way with no money for thousands of years. What do you mean by poor?
The idea that scares me, or worries me , is islanders becoming reliant and greedy for goods. Fighting amongst each other and any other negative traits that come about.
Theres a great story of Steve and Linda Dashew in the tuamotus. Steve caught a massive fish, way to much for the fmaily to eat. 1.5 metres long!
A local saw and padled up to the boat and said " Do you want a hand" Steve said sure, and they went ashore and cleaned the fish together. Steve then took a few big bits for himself his fmaily for dinner and gave the rest to the islander. He was stoked and told all his mates. See even though these guys fish, they cannot get out into deep ocean so it was a bounty for his whole family and some in the village.
The next day a few islanders paddled out to steves boat and gave them a heap of fruit. He invited the whole family over for dinner that night. 10 of them! he Kept the guitars out to inspire anyone who wanted a sing along and the islanders being great musicians sang all night. This went on for about a week!
This kind of exchange is what you want. Its beautiful and its what binds people. Monetary objects divide humans in IMO.
Just look at fiji. Go to Suva. Its changed so much. Worry on all the locals faces, parking meters, credit cards.
We definitely shouldnt be influencing the locals. Theyre already perfect and richer than we will ever be.

Very true.. when I was in Nuku Hiva an enterprising local had started a 'shack' restaurant on the jetty and served basic meals, soda and beer to locals and cruisers.. after every lunch one or other of the local folks would grab a Ukulele and there'd be a sing along that would last a couple of hours through the afternoon with singers/players coming and going..
Got talking to the owner and asked him if he'd been to Europe or the States..
"What for..??" he responded.. "I'm hungry I pluck fruit from a tree.. I want fish I throw a line in the sea.. I want meat I get my horse and dogs and ride up the hills and hunt wild goat or pig.. we have no pollution, no stress.. your world has nothing I need.. or of interest to me.."
The man has life nailed..

If I'd got there 50yrs earlier I'd never have left..

double u · 16-03-2017, 04:34

...never needed a dentist in your life...?

Tetepare · 16-03-2017, 05:39

I had thought Mark to have travelled in the South Pacific, but his thread- while valid questions- leaves me wondering.

Fish hooks. High quality, stainless fishhooks of various shapes. I can buy thousands in 20 minutes. But good luck in the Pacific. Even Norfolk Island- one would think you just got on the internet and order them- but nooo, many vendors don't ship to Norfolk.

Heck, I have to send care packages to AUSTRALIA because me mates there can't get certain items shipped to friggin mainland AUS.

No entrepreneur is being robbed. First off, the concept exists in decreasing representation as one gets to outer islands. There is no smart guy making a few bucks off fish hooks on Otang Java, Funafuti, or Bikini. Yes there is some entrepreneur in major cities making money off fish hooks and the like- an 90% chance he's Chinese...he also has a huge markup and he has a lock on the market. You're not hurting any local entrepreneurial spirit.

.22 is desired in FP to dispatch pigs. It is a lot easier than wrasslin' with them with a big knife in your hand. In Tuvalu they want air rifle ammo and scopes to hunt pigeons, a delicacy.

Buy local, eh? Good luck finding Tupperware instead of the cheap Chinese crap that doesn't close. Or acetone, or rubbing alcohol. Even soccer balls. Nails, screws, quality tools. Yeah, you can get that stuff in Nieafu, but not on Niuafo'ou.

Booze is a different story. Many in the islands, when they can get their hands on alcohol, will binge. I'm not going to recommend one way or the other how yachties handle that. But if one is inclined to invite locals aboard (almost inevitable) it is wise to have lots of cheap booze aboard lest the liquor cabinet suffers a catastrophic $1000 failure in a single evening.

There is no second-hand shop in most outer islands- only in major centers. And when Auntie visits the big city and returns with a big box of T shirts it's a blessing. But Auntie has neither the money nor luggage to bring back enough for all the children. It hurts nobody to brighten their day with clothing and books.