Sailing upwind

[sailingabe41ds]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Of course you know most boats sail faster with wind on the beam. A close haul is usually a slow point of sail. It may feel more exciting, but if you want speed, put wind on the beam.

I guess what I wanted to say is sail closer to a close reach rather than the close hauled as that would be a little faster with less heeling than a closed haul.


Abe

[fxykty]

It all depends. Our boat is perfectly comfortable in most conditions offshore on any point of sail. It helps to have a boat that doesn’t heel much (about 5*) and doesn’t make movement, cooking, toileting and sleeping a PITA.

Gosh, if you’re in New Zealand you’re going to hate heading to the islands (or back down here from there) if you don’t like upwind or close reaching. A lot of those YT “worst sail ever” videos show one of these passages.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Feeling alive is what it's all about.


My most vivid memory of backwoods hiking is when a sudden freak snow storm hit us. It was early to mid May up in the Sierra's around 6500 feet. 75* out and we were in the middle of nowhere, off trail, in our shirtsleeves when the temps dropped to around 25* and it started to blow and snow.

We had lightweight rain jackets with us because you never know, but the forecast wasn't for snow or low temps. Totally unexpected and we had to slog out through about 6 inches of snow on a steep trail for about 3 hours with our teeth chattering and our fingers turning blue.

The WAHOOO's! when we hit the trailhead were probably heard for miles and plans were immediately made for a return visit after the first snowfall. Okay, we started the planning after the first cup of hot coffee went all the way down. But we made plans to do it.

The point is, we felt alive! We all knew exactly why freeclimbers climb without ropes/harness, why expeditions go to the poles, and why Everest has such an attraction. Some people cross oceans in tiny boats for the same reason.

I can't hike anymore, my spine won't let me. But, if I could, I'd do it again and again and again hoping to find that bit of whatever it is. I'm not an adrenaline junky, I just don't want to spend the rest of my life sitting on the couch saying: I wish...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Gimmee upwind.

Yeah, most of us love upwind sailing when out for a few hours in good conditions when we are rested and out on a nice day having fun but when it's say 20-25 knots exactly in the direction you want to go and the closest to the wind your old boat can get is like 60-70 degrees and you are trying to get someplace, the fun seems to subside a bit especially if you are wet, cold, and hungry and still have 20 to 400 miles to go.

Downwind in that type scenario is much better.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Feeling alive is what it's all about.


My most vivid memory of backwoods hiking is when a sudden freak snow storm hit us. It was early to mid May up in the Sierra's around 6500 feet. 75* out and we were in the middle of nowhere, off trail, in our shirtsleeves when the temps dropped to around 25* and it started to blow and snow.

We had lightweight rain jackets with us because you never know, but the forecast wasn't for snow or low temps. Totally unexpected and we had to slog out through about 6 inches of snow on a steep trail for about 3 hours with our teeth chattering and our fingers turning blue.

Great, now picture that same scenario, but it took you 3 days not 3 hours to complete.

You would definitely like feeling alive afterward if you made it.

You cannot compare 3 hours to some expedition.

Same with cruising.

I was a beach cat racer and had similar thoughts as yours but after being out on my old , slow cruising boat for a few days and tired for various reason sometimes the "feeling alive" thing starts to fade a bit.

Then after you make it back to your marina and drag all your crap off the boat bone tired and get back to your old house or apartment which suddenly seems like heaven! (a real palace) that great feeling alive thing starts to return and in a few days you are like wow that was great!

But not immediately......

[barnakiel]

Well. That's where lake or weekend sailing does not align neatly with ocean passages.


In open water, as long as swell is OK, going upwind is nice. But swell hardly ever is OK in open water.


I like going "upwind" and our boat sails fine "upwind". Leave Deshaies, head for the Azores, set windvane, and start reading a good book. Easy.

[hafa]

Geography and meteorology here conspire in such a fashion to where sailing upwind is the only way you'll ever get anywhere, so we simply take it as an inherent part of the undertaking. As such, it's neither liked nor disliked, it just comes with the territory. That said, there are times we'll motor sail to cut the times on certain legs from 10-12 hours to 4.


In terms of sailing a downwind/broad reach and accidental jibes, a preventer is your friend.

[Benz]

My best sailing is done with the wind just barely forward of the beam. Boat rides the steadiest, sheets are out just a bit, but I can turn either up or down without tacking or gybing to avoid other traffic.
She'll steer herself in quiet water on that point of sail--I can just let go the tiller. I'd be content to sail everywhere under that point of sail if it never blew harder than 10-12.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Great, now picture that same scenario, but it took you 3 days not 3 hours to complete.

You would definitely like feeling alive afterward if you made it.

You cannot compare 3 hours to some expedition.

Same with cruising.

I was a beach cat racer and had similar thoughts as yours but after being out on my old , slow cruising boat for a few days and tired for various reason sometimes the "feeling alive" thing starts to fade a bit.

Then after you make it back to your marina and drag all your crap off the boat bone tired and get back to your old house or apartment which suddenly seems like heaven! (a real palace) that great feeling alive thing starts to return and in a few days you are like wow that was great!

But not immediately......

It took all of an hour to get in, 3 hours to get out. When we were done we were tired, cold, hungry, and bashed/bruised.

3 hours is more than enough time to freeze to death when its that cold and you aren't wearing anything more than a single layer nylon jacket over your T shirt and hiking shorts.

But we did it. We survived against adversity.

Did you quit sailing after your first long offshore upwind passage despite being tired, cold, hungry, and sore?

If not, did you go out and do it again?

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Feeling alive is what it's all about.


My most vivid memory of backwoods hiking is when a sudden freak snow storm hit us. It was early to mid May up in the Sierra's around 6500 feet. 75* out and we were in the middle of nowhere, off trail, in our shirtsleeves when the temps dropped to around 25* and it started to blow and snow.

We had lightweight rain jackets with us because you never know, but the forecast wasn't for snow or low temps. Totally unexpected and we had to slog out through about 6 inches of snow on a steep trail for about 3 hours with our teeth chattering and our fingers turning blue.

The WAHOOO's! when we hit the trailhead were probably heard for miles and plans were immediately made for a return visit after the first snowfall. Okay, we started the planning after the first cup of hot coffee went all the way down. But we made plans to do it.

The point is, we felt alive! We all knew exactly why freeclimbers climb without ropes/harness, why expeditions go to the poles, and why Everest has such an attraction. Some people cross oceans in tiny boats for the same reason.

I had that same feeling after hiking across the Salang Pass in Afghanistan. I'd rather sail upwind from Gloucester to Goa than do that again, though.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fxykty

It all depends. Our boat is perfectly comfortable in most conditions offshore on any point of sail.

Says the big ocean going catamaran sailor


Hardly typical of most sailors here. "Boat: Outremer 55L"

[Mike OReilly]

The thing about heel is that beyond a certain point it rapidly becomes counter-productive. People like to talk about "burying the rail," and they think this means they're really going fast or sailing well. But the reason it feels that way is because you've got way more strain on everything than is wise. More likely they're making more leeway than headway at that point.

On my boat, if we're much over 10 degrees, we've likely got too much sail up. Time to reef. The boat will go faster, and be far more comfortable. And we won't be putting all that unnecessary strain on sails and rigging.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The thing about heel is that beyond a certain point it rapidly becomes counter-productive. People like to talk about "burying the rail," and they think this means they're really going fast or sailing well. But the reason it feels that way is because you've got way more strain on everything than is wise. More likely they're making more leeway than headway at that point.

On my boat, if we're much over 10 degrees, we've likely got too much sail up. Time to reef. The boat will go faster, and be far more comfortable. And we won't be putting all that unnecessary strain on sails and rigging.

When I was a kid my family had a Great Dane 28 - relatively narrow, long full keel, and wine glass plan view. She settled at 25* heel, which meant leeward toerail just awash, upwind amd even close reaching. Anything less than that and she wasn’t powered up and doing hull speed. 12 metres (in fact, any of the metre rule boats) are the same.

Some boats are designed to heel that much, and others, mostly with wider beams and more pronounced chines (like an old fashioned champagne glass rather than a flute glass) prefer much less heel.

It depends - there aren’t rules that apply to all boat types.

[hafa]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

People like to talk about "burying the rail," and they think this means they're really going fast or sailing well.

Actually, I think that it means that I'm trying to tell my slumbering crew that coffee's on...

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by fxykty

When I was a kid my family had a Great Dane 28 - relatively narrow, long full keel, and wine glass plan view. She settled at 25* heel, which meant leeward toerail just awash, upwind amd even close reaching. Anything less than that and she wasn’t powered up and doing hull speed. 12 metres (in fact, any of the metre rule boats) are the same.

Some boats are designed to heel that much, and others, mostly with wider beams and more pronounced chines (like an old fashioned champagne glass rather than a flute glass) prefer much less heel.

It depends - there aren’t rules that apply to all boat types.

I can say for a fact that Solings want to heel