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Old 08-11-2021, 15:28   #76
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Originally Posted by Knotical View Post
Since you already have a boat you don’t really need lessons to learn how to sail, you can just read some basics and watch a few YT videos and figure out how to sail.

Self-learning will not however teach you how to maximize your boat’s potential as your comfort zone will be quite small. Getting an experienced sailor on your boat will save you weeks and months compared to learning by yourself even though the excitement factor of doing things yourself will be different.

My advice would be to have an experienced sailor take you out a few times in different wind conditions, the other advice will be to start racing - either on your boat or on somebody else’s, nothing will make you a better sailor faster than racing. 😊
I self taught on an 18 ft scow. Start slow and don't push yourself.
Your comfort level will increase expotentially with experience. I moved on to a 7 metre that I raced the hell out of. Stepped up to an 11. Get involved with others in your boats class. LOTS of Catalina owners out there.
And enjoy the ride!!
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Old 08-11-2021, 15:48   #77
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Yes! Both!

If you want to accerate your learing curve then self study all you can, get training, crew for others, race, charter...everything you can. Not only will this shorten the time of your learning curve it will also yeild deeper and broader knowledge.

All the above!
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Old 08-11-2021, 19:41   #78
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Originally Posted by Carl-T705 View Post
Crew on a race boat.... This advice always cracks me up. Sounds like a good way to never want to go out on a sailboat again. What to learn how to drive a car??? Join a nascar team...right????
Well Carl-T705, I've tried to rationally, and in detail, explain why crewing on a race boat is a good way to learn a lot about sailing.

Now you come along and just heap ridicule on the idea, without one word about why you feel that way.

Why dont you elaborate on why it "cracks you up"?
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:50   #79
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Sure be glad to, the OP said he is new to sailing and this forum, that is so broad a statement it leaves me to wonder what he means. I take from it he is new to boating. Is that really the venue for a new boater to be introduced to being on the water? Racing round the cans, maximum sails , healing boat, crowded water way and commands being shouted out with words he for the most part never heard before. Where's the lesson here. How about starting out by becoming familiar with the motion of a boat on the water at a dock. Then moving to motoring to learn how the boat will handle underway and how to get it back to the dock or mooring.Then moving up to sailing with a jib and getting comfortable under sail and gentle boat motion. I've known a few people who were interested in boating and couldn't even walk down a floating dock to get to the boat. I think new boaters should be introduced to boating and not thrown into the mix. Know any race boats that introduced new boaters this way???Yeah I know, my thinking is antiquated. Cheers
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Old 09-11-2021, 11:58   #80
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Originally Posted by Carl-T705 View Post
Sure be glad to, the OP said he is new to sailing and this forum, that is so broad a statement it leaves me to wonder what he means. I take from it he is new to boating. Is that [racing] really the venue for a new boater to be introduced to being on the water? Racing round the cans, maximum sails , healing boat, crowded water way and commands being shouted out with words he for the most part never heard before. Where's the lesson here.

What you describe is not representative of all racing. I’ve sailed somewhere around 500 races on my boat. Probably more that 75% were low key, casual races. I would not, and most skippers I know, would not take a raw recruit on the high intensity races you describe. On the casual races it is not hard for a beginner.

Maximum Sails
Sails may be maximum size, but often the conditions dictate smaller sails. And maximum sails are not, in themselves, bad things.
Heeling
All sailboats (monos anyway) heel over. That is not necessarily scary or dangerous. Excessive heeling is. On a race boat the crew will reduce sail or change trim to reduce excessive heeling. The newbie will see that excessive heeling is not the best way to sail fast or under control and he/she will note that the crew takes action to reduce it. That is a valuable lesson. Later he/she may actually learn what those actions were and why they work (A really sharp student will pick it up instantly).
Crowded waterway
Most casual races are not taking place in crowded waterways and don’t always have crowded starting areas, however racing boats do approach each other quite close at times. The beginner will not be in charge of steering. He/she may become nervous the first few times, hopefully not become a scared wreck, but quickly they will learn that sailing in proximity with other boats is OK.
Shouted commands
The best skippers may be loud at times, to be heard, but don’t shout in anger at their crew, and they will take pains to give understandable orders to the new person. If the new person finds the experience unpleasant, they should try another boat. Learning what is bad behavior is also important.

How about starting out by becoming familiar with the motion of a boat on the water at a dock. Then moving to motoring to learn how the boat will handle underway and how to get it back to the dock or mooring.Then moving up to sailing with a jib and getting comfortable under sail and gentle boat motion. I've known a few people who were interested in boating and couldn't even walk down a floating dock to get to the boat.
I think your soft approach is a bit slow for many people, but for a newbie who views the whole thing with trepidation maybe that is what would work. I don’t advocate a one size fits all approach, nor do I dismiss the value of a few lessons or reading books.

Introduced to boating or thrown into the mix? I think new boaters should be introduced to boating and not thrown into the mix. Know any race boats that introduced new boaters this way???Yeah I know, my thinking is antiquated. Cheers

Yes, I do. Mine. I’ve been teaching sailing for 50 years, literally thousands of people, many of whom never set foot on a boat before. I find that it is very easy to introduce a newbie to sailing on a race boat, even if the first time they sail it is a race. It is all about preparing them for what will happen, what they are supposed to do, and then keeping an eye on them to ensure they are not having trouble. Usually a new person will get an on-the-boat introduction at the dock when no other crew members are around, to learn some safety points and how basic stuff works.
I’ll give you an example: We met a couple at a bar who, when they learned we had a sailboat, said, “Golly, we’d sure love to go on a sailboat” They’d never been on a boat before. I said, “How about Wednesday? We’re going out and you can come with us. Show up at 2:00PM”.
I did not tell them it was a beer can race, but I needed crew. They came at 2:00, the rest of the crew showed up at 3:00 and we went racing. I’d given them easy jobs and explained what would happen but of course they were a bit overwhelmed that first time. Happy, excited, exhilarated, but a little lost. I told them they would be, but don’t worry, it will come, and it did. They came back next week, as they always do, and sailed with us for every race for 5 years before they moved away and I can tell you that they could step on any boat in the world and be comfortable about what was going on and how, basically, to sail it.
There is nothing impractical or unfair about putting a newbie on a race boat on day one.

It’s all about the teacher. I’ve never had a bad experience with one of my new crew members or students.
Why do I promote this idea of learning through racing? It’s because it is an extensive, immersive, sailing experience compared to a few structured lessons. The structured lesson can cover a few points, but with 4-6 students, all needing to learn, the learning experience is slow and brief. (“Ok Johnny, it Mary’s time to hold the jib sheet, move over please”) 4-6 lessons and it’s over. They are brief, slow paced, and basic. More lessons can be arranged but it costs some more money (racing is free). I say put in a season on a race boat, you will get many more hours on board with several experienced sailors, not just one expert, you will be faced with a heap of situations and challenges, and you will learn advanced techniques.

Yes, take some lessons if you want. Hire a teacher or take a friend out. But if you want fast advancement, join a racing crew.
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Old 09-11-2021, 12:18   #81
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

I'm flying to Europe soon. Hope it's not one of those pilots who taught themselves on the Internet.
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Old 09-11-2021, 13:00   #82
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

^^^^^

Good post from Fred. I think racing on Wings would be a good experience, novice or not.

But not all skippers are so well behaved or as experienced. I've sailed with a couple (many years ago) that scared the crap outta me, and I was pretty experienced at the time. Unfortunately the novice will be ill prepared to judge in advance how things will go on board, and should be prepared to change boats as required... not an easy ask for a newbie IMO.

But the price is right and sea time is expensive in paid lesson environments, so low level racing is a good source of experience for many folks.

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Old 09-11-2021, 13:01   #83
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Hello all!
Iam new to this forum and sailing. I just bought a 1984 Catalina 25. I have never sailed but I'm very excited to learn. There is a sailing school in the same basin where my boat is slipped. I was wondering how worth it sailing lessons are or if the internet/ going out with friends of friends is a viable way to learn as well?
So much of this conversation has been based on racing-vs-non-racing.

For this boat, the OP needs to learn to skipper a boat and get on and off the dock, presumably under power (therefore how to use an outboard); rigging, handling sails, reefing, tying the right knots in the right places, sailing to windward, preventing accidental gybes, person-overboard, rules of the road, navigation in poor conditions (fog/night/rougher-than-usual weather) etc. etc. etc. As many have said, you learn by doing. But if you're skipper, not crew, you need to know what you don't know.

OP needs to learn the basics of all that, at the very least, which really requires instruction. After that, you can perfect your sail-handling/trimming/racing etc skills however you like. But please, for the sake of yourself, your crew, and others out there on the water, take even a week-long class. Or do ASA 101 and ASA 103. Or bring that RYA instructor out to put you through it.

[PS decades ago, we learned by doing...and ran aground on our first sail, spent four hours at night on a sandbar, groped our way back in the dark, unequipped for or educated in night sailing...good thing we had bilge keels and it was sand, not rock, and we were lucky]

[PPS: Sailing with Wingsail--or someone like that--sounds like a great way to learn to do all I've mentioned.]
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:50   #84
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Lessons, and racing with a competitive skipper. The racer doesn't have to be a rockstar, just competitive. Racing will teach you boat handling and make you a better sailor than you'll become on your own, or with lessons. But if you want to cruise there are a lot skills and tricks which will help you, that you'll never learn going fast around buoys. Without a racing mentor or lessons, you'll likely find sailing very frustrating, and never achieve the enjoyment you're looking for.
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