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Old 08-11-2021, 08:26   #61
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Originally Posted by wingssail View Post
I would recommend that you take advantage of all your avenues to gaining sailing experience:

1. Take a sailing lesson or a few. These will be superficial.

2. Take you own boat out and gain experience be doing and experimenting. This may be frustrating.

3. Get on a racing crew. This will be the most cost effective and quickest way to get real solid exposure to sailors with real sailing skills. One year of racing will teach you more than you’ll ever learn by yourself or in lessons. (or by studying you-tube videos) even if you don't think you'll ever want to be a racer.
Good advice, says a guy who both races and cruises. I also owned a Cat 25 swing keel for 9 years, sold it, then eventually bought her back and sailed her for 9 more under the name Encore! I liked the boat a lot, but never fooled myself into thinking she was a blue water boat by any means. She was great for cruising in relatively protected waters of lakes, rivers, and waters of the Salish Sea in WA and Canada, but not for ROUGH conditions. Trust me. I taught myself how to sail my first boat, a 16' Snipe dinghy. Great training for where I was. Then I got an 18' cruiser with a little outboard, small cabin, etc. and cruised her for about 5 years in the San Juans and on the Columbia River. Then came the Catalina 25, which I started to race on the river. THAT's when I started to learn how to make a boat GO with proper sail trim, and being committed to going out when the weather isn't perfect, which is what a lot of cruisers do. A commitment to race almost forces you to go out in all sorts of conditions, from 'drifters' to gale force winds that most cruisers would avoid at all costs.....

You need a MIX of 'theory' and practice...and they are NOT the same. I teach any number of people to sail and crew on my current boat that I race on the
Columbia, and my focus has always been on teaching the WHOLE boat and 'why' a particular job is important and how it fits the overall picture of what is going on and why. Many, many of my former crew now have their own boats, and many have moved on to bigger, faster race vessels. And, btw, the crew I get who've learned mostly from 'classes' are almost always without much experience...which they get on my boat...racing every Sunday afternoon all winter. The last 3 weeks we've seen wind up to 30 knots, and the week before, the max gust was about 2 or 3! Not many cruisers will get the sort of experiences in varied conditions like that; they stay tied to the dock!

So...get the 'theory' from books and classes if you want, but get on a 'non-yelling' smaller race boat to get the 'experience' you will find invaluable. Good luck!
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:39   #62
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

It is not the "things" you know, but the "things" you don't know. Experience is the best teacher, but by taking a sailing course, with on the water training, will be invaluable towards your progress of becoming a knowledgeable sailor. There is no downside to taking a sailing course, only upside.
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:40   #63
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Hello all!
Iam new to this forum and sailing. I just bought a 1984 Catalina 25. I have never sailed but I'm very excited to learn. There is a sailing school in the same basin where my boat is slipped. I was wondering how worth it sailing lessons are or if the internet/ going out with friends of friends is a viable way to learn as well?

Hi, I have been through a few boats from sailing dinghy's Catalina 27 to living aboard a Cal 246 for 12 years. It's a truly great life. I've been out with many sailors who, although they have large boats and many sea time years don't seem to have developed a rhythm or safe techniques to the sport or just cruising.
I highly recommend good thorough Navigation courses and as one other said crew on other boats where you can. Be a fun safe skipper sand smile a lot. Cheers Ed
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:53   #64
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

All I can say is I learned 99% sailing ON THE WATER.


And 1% in class.


Sailing is like dancing, you do not learn it by reading a book. By reading a book you learn ABOUT sailing. And these are two different things.


Go dance more.



b.
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Old 08-11-2021, 08:56   #65
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

PS self-teach ???


There is no such thing.


You cannot learn from one who does not know.


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Old 08-11-2021, 09:20   #66
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZDM View Post
Hello all!
Iam new to this forum and sailing. I just bought a 1984 Catalina 25. I have never sailed but I'm very excited to learn. There is a sailing school in the same basin where my boat is slipped. I was wondering how worth it sailing lessons are or if the internet/ going out with friends of friends is a viable way to learn as well?
I learned how to sail on my own in San Pablo and San Francisco Bays, CA, much of it solo. It is something you can't learn from books alone but they help to get you started with the principles. Go for it and put the money you save into the boat.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:00   #67
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

well, you could always come out here in the summer for a bit. We have a fleet of nearly 40 Capri 25s. It's a serious racing club and the Capris race three times a week. We also hold training for new skippers, and separate training for new crew, teaching them the basics every spring. It's something to think about.

We also have adult lessons at the sailing school next door.

The main thing is: sail with other people, on their boats. Learn what they do right and what they do wrong. Use what works for you. Build your experience.

Full disclosure: I've been a member of the club for more than 20 years. We have a whole pile of US Sailing certified instructors, and I'm one. And I've been on the board of the sailing school for about 20 years now. It's one of the most active sailing/racing clubs in the country, despite the fact that we have a relatively short season.

https://wyc.org
https://wayzatasailing.org
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:29   #68
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Hey There,

My boat is located in Nanaimo BC now. This area is not only a different country but clearly a different sailing world. There are a multitude of islands, bays, rocks, reefs, obstacles, logging booms dead heads, big tides, crazy weather, lights, markers buoys. etc. Sailing can only really be experienced effectively by doing it. Safe open water sailing with clear visibility is freeing. Cruising close to rocks, obstacles in unfamiliar areas, with limited vis./ fog and traffic can be soul rattling. We have a coarse called the Royal Canadian sail and power squadron. It was fun and so confidence building to lean basic navigation (not expensive either) One of my first late afternoon adventures turned to night before I realized it. I found that I could identify all the flashing lights, each bearing and was able to sail or motor a safe coarse into an unknown harbor. Good up to date charts or a program are a requirement. If you choose peace on the water over chaos, learn your stuff. (even good basics) Leaving a dock is a wold away from landing your vessel. Enjoy your new found passion.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:47   #69
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Originally Posted by ZDM View Post
Hello all!

Iam new to this forum and sailing. I just bought a 1984 Catalina 25. I have never sailed but I'm very excited to learn. There is a sailing school in the same basin where my boat is slipped. I was wondering how worth it sailing lessons are or if the internet/ going out with friends of friends is a viable way to learn as well?
Join and find out, nothing to lose.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:02   #70
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
All I can say is I learned 99% sailing ON THE WATER.


And 1% in class.


Sailing is like dancing, you do not learn it by reading a book. By reading a book you learn ABOUT sailing. And these are two different things.


Go dance more.



b.
I learned on my own first with a junk sailing dinghy, then on a Hobie 16 that I started racing immediately as Skipper with my son as crew.

Since I'm very competitive when I wasn't racing or just out sailing for fun I was reading about it.

After 5 years of that after moving to Florida the racing was just about every weekend and with beach cats a regatta usually consisted of 5 races which met 5 starts which is where you really learn to handle your boat in close quarters in winds from 5-21 knots.

Starting in high winds with 30 boats on the line is..........nerve racking to say the least.

Downwind starts with spinnaker single handed is even worse

But side note, I had already owned 6 power boats as a teen and in my early 20's before I started sailing so I had boating experience years before.
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:20   #71
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Two things that will help you learn REALLY fast:
1) Race
2) In a dinghy

1) Why race? - The best sailors are racers. Not because you need to be able to sail fast on a cruiser but you want to be able to sail EFFICIENTLY and racing is the best way to learn. You need to understand how to trim the boat, trim the sails and understand the effect things like windshifts have, all of that in different wind and sea conditions. Find a local sailing club and ask around if anyone needs a willing but rookie crew. You want a 2 person boat ideally. As soon as you understand how to crew effectively see if someone will let you helm.

2) Why a dinghy? - because you learn really quickly about what works and what doesn't, if you get it really wrong you capsize! The fundamental problem learning on a keelboat or cruising cat is that they are incredibly forgiving, you can't feel anything and you can be a really bad sailor and never know it. A dinghy is light and you will feel immediately for e.g. when a sail is oversheeted, when the boat is heeling too much, the boat balance in different wind strengths with different sails etc. etc. etc.

To give you an idea how useful this is: a keelboat sailor friend who owns his own boat wanted to try my single-handed, spinnaker dinghy. We launched him inside a harbour on a fairly light wind day and he couldn't even get the boat out of the harbour. I had to take over, sail the boat out and then swap outside. He is a very experienced cruiser but literally had no clue how to sail properly. I don't say this to rag on him, it's to illustrate how useful dinghy sailing is.


Also, this is advice for someone who may never want to race! if you understand HOW race a dinghy you will enjoy your cruising more, get where you want to go more easily and with less stress on you AND your boat. For example you won't abide weather or lee helm and will trim to sort it out rather than let your autopilot sail with the rudder at a constant angle for days on end, reducing your speed and putting constant strain on not just the rudder fittings but everything else as well. There are lots of other examples. Let us know how you get on!!
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Old 08-11-2021, 11:36   #72
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

I learned through a special school. The one of HARD KNOCKS! I can say it works
BUT! BUT!……. It takes lots of time and can cost you lots of money in repairs and damage to you and others. That being said, I also have a lot of experience as a US Sailing Cruising instructor for one of the largest schools in the nation. Our courses were thorough and efficient without cutting corners. Club Nautique in San Francisco. A challenging sailing ground, especially offshore. When done you were qualified to seriously go cruising. I met a number of my students in many foreign ports. As others have suggested, crewing on race boats woks too although much slower and less thorough. The biggest variable is how good is the sailing school near you?? They can be great and they can be a rip off. Especially if it is a wiz bang slam you through type.
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Old 08-11-2021, 12:08   #73
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

Definitely get some lessons, it's not just you out there!

The first time or so out should be either with an experienced friend or an Instructor. If you go out and it all goes wrong you could do more harm than good to both your confidence and your boat. Doing it right will make the whole experience so much more fun. Personally, I'd avoid the race boat idea, which can be off-putting in its own right! It's a bit of a love it hate pastime!!
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Old 08-11-2021, 14:18   #74
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

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Fastest route is to crew on a race boat.

After a lifetime of sailing I STILL learn when other experienced sailors come aboard.

Friend aboard, unless they know how to sail, are going to be more problem than useful.

Take a lesson, even one beginners lesson.
Crew on a race boat.... This advice always cracks me up. Sounds like a good way to never want to go out on a sailboat again. What to learn how to drive a car??? Join a nascar team...right????
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Old 08-11-2021, 15:23   #75
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Re: sailing lessons or self teach?

I think folks have forgotten the day before jet skis were invented when you could rent a sailboat off the beach with zero experience.

They would give you 15 minutes or so of instruction and that was it!

You were good to go.....

But you can make anything seem hard I guess even sailing a boat with one sail.
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