Rules, taxes, registration on non-US boat

[alha]

More great info, thanks. About those property/personal/boat taxes, would it be true that they only come into play if a set number of days (60 seems to be fairly common) is passed in one state? I can't imagine you pull up to the mooring/dock, and Mr. Taxman is waiting there with glee to smack you down with a bill for said taxes? :-O

[Moody46CC]

No. Well, not always.

The moment you try to register a boat, the taxman will be waiting for the sales tax/use tax in those states with one. The use tax is a different name but amounts to the same thing. You are paying to use the waters of a certain state in lieu of a sales tax. But financially it will bite the same.

Property taxes usually come after a certain period, as you noted. In South Carolina, 181 days. People wintering over in Charleston, a nice place, have tarried and .... In VA, 1 January is the date. Have a boat in a yard for winter storage or in a marina, that day will determine the tax bill. I do not believe they care if you have it there for repairs or storage. They use 1 January because there really is not much transit traffic at that time of the year in the Chesapeake, so they assume you are docking your boat in that marina. The burden to say you keep it elsewhere is on you. And guess who makes the determination of your appeal? The very people who sent you the tax bill. A fellow on this forum from Maryland had his boat in a VA yard over the winter for some repair work and he got taxed. Understandably unhappy.

So, for the most part, the taxes are not at all instantaneous upon arrival, but watch out. Check on the internet unless you are strictly passing through. States are having troubles balancing their budgets, and boat owners are a good, lucrative target.

[alha]

Moody, thank you for that detailed reply. Very good to know, and who knows what rules will come into effect between now and when I actually purchase the boat? Sheesh. I kind of feel I have a big fat target with a $ as a bullseye on my back if I own a boat... And then, on the flip side of it, there are all those fees when traveling internationally as well, visas, etc. Again, much to learn, study and absorb before I take the step of making that big purchase. Glad you guys have gone before me, and have posted much good advice, as well as are willing to answer what probably seems to be basic questions. Thanks much for that!

[sailcrazy]

alha, as I wrote before we've not had a problem anyplace we've been and/or checking in or out. And we've paid no tax on her and don't expect to.....unless we sail to conus waters and stay for more than the allotted days. And since we've now owned our boat for 15+ years, and she's 27years old, the "current value", and taxed value, will be much less compared to what we paid for her. Buy the boat you want, where you want, and then get off shore within the allotted days, and go use her. Leave her out of the conus when you come back for visits/short stays, until you're ready to stop cruising and stay local......and then worry about the taxes due! By then the current regime will be out of office, and who knows what the tax picture will be like. When we bought our boat, I had no idea what taxes may be due. I called at least 15-20 different people and offices, in both the US Govt and several state govts, and a few US Brokers.......and although my questions were always the same, the answers I got were radically different at every office I called. I finally just gave up, did the USCG Documentation (free at that time), and quit worrying about it...if they want me, come get me! Life's to short to get to wrapped about it, unless you intend to stay fulltime stateside-but you said you were going cruising. So go cruising!

[valhalla360]

Is the intent to bring it back to the USA? If not, I believe you can simply coast guard document it and call it good (there may be sales tax in the country you buy it from though)

[alha]

Well, I suppose eventually, I haven't really thought out the endgame. I suppose it depends on my health, which it is fine now, and if/when I get to the point when I want to 'settle down' in old age. I guess that would be considered an unknown unknown, something that will make itself evident as time goes on. I can see myself spending at least part time on it after I come back from the Grand Adventure, be it in the southern US or Mexico/SA/Carribean, but that is me just projecting right now, because I am just in the initial planning stages. I'll know better a few years down the road once I hit the water.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by KidSheeleen

A great source for freshwater great lakes vessels is WWW.greatlakesscuttlebutt .com Has both brokers and marina locations' boats for sell, and articles . as was said earlier, most boats fresh water use and short season for boating. thousands of sail/power boats in the G lakes.

Many of the Great Lakes boats are also listed on Yacht World - especially large ones. Other than that, search for marinas by city along the shore line & call. Call also yacht clubs where boats are often noted on the bulletin boards.

Here is the link to the brokerage at the marina where we haul-out. Brokerage Department | Torresen Marine

There are several other yards on Muskegon lake as well. More in Holland & Grand Haven, Traverse City, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and surprisingly, in several of the small ports up the north-west coast of Michigan. Ask the brokers in these places if they know where to find what you are looking for.

[alha]

Thanks for the heads up, I will do a little looking around, but I've kind of narrowed my list down to a 2004-5 53' Amel Super Maramu 2000 Redline, which I've noticed are fairly hard to find, not a lot of them made. I keep my eyes open, watch what they are listed at and sell for, to gauge the market and be as familiar as possible with them for when the time comes for me to purchase mine.

[cgrassie]

Delaware has no sales tax AND, at least for airplanes, there are lawyers there that will set up a Delaware Corporation and maintain a mailbox for that corporation so that your Delaware corporation can buy and own the boat. BTW Delaware has lots of ocean front. ok, ok, there is not "lots of" anything in Delaware given you can drive across the state in 45 minutes.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by cgrassie

Delaware has no sales tax AND, at least for airplanes, there are lawyers there that will set up a Delaware Corporation and maintain a mailbox for that corporation so that your Delaware corporation can buy and own the boat. BTW Delaware has lots of ocean front. ok, ok, there is not "lots of" anything in Delaware given you can drive across the state in 45 minutes.

Don't you need a US Citizen as at least part owner to start a US corporation?

[monstads]

Alha, you might be interested to know that there's no sales tax in MN for used boats, as long as you buy it from an individual, not a dealer. Not too many Amels around for sale over there, though..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[cgrassie]

Need citizenship:
Not exactly my field but generally not the case. I have owned corporations on Caymans and Barbados (I'm a US citizen) and it seems that tax evasion among a lot of large company's is now pushing them to move their domicile to Ireland! I use the word evasion cause I find it offensive. It's an international economy out there. But it does get a little more complicated cause your own country of origin might still consider ur corporation in US as owing them corporate profit taxes as well as the US. A US company is not required to make a profit (i.e. No income tax since presumably u won't have any) but it does have to show that it is formed for business purposes - hence need for lawyers in setting it up. The reason Delaware has no sales tax is it is so corporate friendly. The majority of companies on the NY stock exchange are "headquartered" there.
But I digress - getting a bit far removed from sailing and boats.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by alha

Thanks for the heads up, I will do a little looking around, but I've kind of narrowed my list down to a 2004-5 53' Amel Super Maramu 2000 Redline, which I've noticed are fairly hard to find, not a lot of them made. I keep my eyes open, watch what they are listed at and sell for, to gauge the market and be as familiar as possible with them for when the time comes for me to purchase mine.

Seriously, take a look at this listing. It is wintering next to us. The owner is getting a bit old to manage it. It has been well maintained and sailed summers to Chicago. 60' Southern Ocean Shipyard Schooner.



Torresen Marine, Inc. - The Sailboat Specialists (Muskegon, MI)=

In addition, there is an as yet unlisted 57 foot boat in their inventory. Its an older classic that has been parked indoors headed for several years for a professional restoration. Owner ran out of money and interest so for sale at about 30 cents on the dollar. I've seen it - gorgeous.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by cgrassie

Delaware has no sales tax AND, at least for airplanes, there are lawyers there that will set up a Delaware Corporation and maintain a mailbox for that corporation so that your Delaware corporation can buy and own the boat. BTW Delaware has lots of ocean front. ok, ok, there is not "lots of" anything in Delaware given you can drive across the state in 45 minutes.

I explored the Delaware option when we bought. This loophole has been recognized by most states and soundly closed. Also, I think you now have to be a resident to claim Delaware boat registration. Perhaps an agreement with other states to avoid legal action? Check before you attempt this.

[cgrassie]

I'm still lookin to buy my first serious boat (aka new home) and so hard for me to speak about Delaware and the sales taxes in that regard. But I do still see in aviation rags an occasional attorney advertising to set this tax avoidance scenario up for you. Airplanes do tend to move around quite a bit more (and faster) however. The key is for the attorney to maintain a Delaware address for you.
I have never done this and it does seem a little sleezy but I have known others who have without any difficulty. Question of course is: does the tax savings even come close to on going legal fees