Ruining it For The Rest of Us?

[ssullivan]

BTW: Chad Lawie is exactly the right kind of person to keep our anchoring rights going strong. Look at how well his boat is kept. It's beautiful. He's living at anchor (a lot of the time), working from the boat and is courteous and respectful to others.

I think he understands my observation because he is doing what I do. Living at or below poverty on an older boat, doing so at anchor and working.

The people I saw in Ft Myers were doing none of the above, except living at anchor. They weren't old either. They were young.

[Divecoz]

SSULLIVAN: You and the wife are living on a $1000 a month and are managing to save almost Zero???
I guess its time to break down and get a better job or a full time job or both should be working? I know pay for a lot of jobs sucks in Florida but . . .2 people working a total of 320 hrs a months and your making nothing ?? That means you each work for a little over $4 an hour hummmmm but are buying a 45 foot boat?? You cannot manage to save hardly anything and yet you bought a 45 ft boat in need of a lot of repairs repairs you realistically may not be able to afford.
What part am missing?
I just went and took a look at SSULLIVANS public profile. You mean to tell me that with those creditials you cannot land a $10 an hour job ?

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Divecoz

SSULLIVAN: You and the wife are living on a $1000 a month and are managing to save almost Zero???
I guess its time to break down and get a better job or a full time job or both should be working? I know pay for a lot of jobs sucks in Florida but . . .2 people working a total of 320 hrs a months and your making nothing ?? That means you each work for a little over $4 an hour hummmmm but are buying a 45 foot boat?? You cannot manage to save hardly anything and yet you bought a 45 ft boat in need of a lot of repairs repairs you realistically may not be able to afford.
What part am missing?

You're not missing much...

We are *spending* $1000/mo and saving what else we make. That's how we finally have a few bucks aside for investing. So we are living off $1000/mo. Those are our expenses. We are not buying a 45' boat. We sold one. We are buying a much smaller boat (10 ft smaller). The 45' boat was too big (read expensive) to pay the marina fees on. You know... haul outs, bottom paint, winter dockage (in Maine, not FL).

We're not unhappy with our lifestyle or level of finances, we are quite happy, actually. We don't need a lot of material things to be happy.

Certainly, maybe people will now understand my concern for the boat bums ruining it for the rest of us who live at anchor...

I could land a $10/hr job, but that that would be silly. I'm chartering my new boat.

I don't want to get into the politics of working for people vs. working for yourself... I'm very anti-corporate after many years spent in business. My phone rings weekly for computer jobs, but I choose to work for myself chartering.

[Divecoz]

Hummmm then loosely speaking and not looking to make enemies but being Honest. . .
You live as you desire and those boat bums live as they desire.
The Charter Business is btw cut throut to say the least everywhere I have ever lived or visited. . so good luck and a lot more.
.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by Divecoz

Hummmm then loosely speaking and not looking to make enemies but being Honest. . .
You live as you desire and those boat bums live as they desire.
The Charter Business is btw cut throut to say the least everywhere I have ever lived or visited. . so good luck and a lot more.
.

Yes... being honest. I'm just an honest guy who had made an observation here since I saw the reason behind our loss of anchoring rights in FL. I was hoping the post might help the community to figure out a way to avoid these restrictions.

I guess I shouldn't have tried... it's a bit depressing to read all the hate coming back my way for pointing out (what I think) to be a very important topic.

I've got a special charter business lined up. I ran one for a summer on the 45' boat. I had no trouble filling the seats, but I do appreciate your wishes of good luck. One can always use it with a new venture.

[GordMay]

Divecoz
Google returns 25,700 hits for < millions of gallons of raw sewage >

[Divecoz]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Divecoz
Google returns 25,700 hits for < millions of gallons of raw sewage >

GordMay I went I looked I returned.
I returned to say that the vast majority of all or at least every item found on the first two pages showed to be, an accident and emergency bailout or a . . . dirty sneeky corporation.
I will look again later to see if it listed, any city in the USA that is still today using the Great Lakes The Gulf Of Mexico The Atlantic or the Pacific as their direct means of Sewage elimination. So far though I find none!
And the comment was Direct i.e. no treatment shooter thru amigo ooppss dont swim there kids. Have they dont it Yes they have the even barged it out and dumped it off and are Now re-claiming it (NYC)

[imagine2frolic]

Divecoz

Living life the way you please, and being financially responsible. Is completely different then sucking dry the resources of those that do contribute. I think you really missed the point ssulli was trying to make.

I am not trying to pick an argument, but it is true. Those who abuse privileges are the reason others lose them. It also worries me that the squallor in the anchorages will keep me from some day visiting there, because they were closed, or limited in time.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Anyone got photos or links to Sullivans vacation spot?

[Divecoz]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

Divecoz

Living life the way you please, and being financially responsible. Is completely different then sucking dry the resources of those that do contribute. I think you really missed the point ssulli was trying to make.

I am not trying to pick an argument, but it is true. Those who abuse privileges are the reason others lose them. It also worries me that the squallor in the anchorages will keep me from some day visiting there, because they were closed, or limited in time.

Its a tuff subject and for 99% I agree with clean it up
There are always two sides... sometimes one is very weak I will admit.
You could easily run a rant about people wasting my tax dollars on school and then not using it. Or not working for the man and then as we all have seen it happen, they somewhere along the line fail and they are the first to be digging into the mans pocket the never put anything or not much of anything into it.....

[swagman]

Shame to see Seans comments create a debate that ends up taking his points off subject.
IMHO what Sean himself does or does not do is his business and no one elses - so lets leave that out of this debate.
And yes Sean - I'd agree with you it is always a shame when the actions of a few influence the opportunities of many.
But having said that, I do not think the answer is more policing - or rules - or trying to move such people on.
Personally, I've not much time for people who sit on boats and don't sail them, but I have less time for landlubbers who are silly enough to assume all sailboat owners are the same.
I'd rather time and energy was spent in educating those with the wrong beliefs, as opposed to the same time and energy went into policing the guys sitting on the boats.
Policing them (ie moving them on etc) will not actually change anything - simply move the problem elsewhere. Educating the ignorant could change things for the good of the majority.
I think.
JOHN

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Anyone got photos or links to Sullivans vacation spot?

Here's all I could find. Not much. Should have taken photos. This is mostly text, with a couple photos mixed in.

ABC7 News Online - Removing derelict boats - no easy task

Caloosa Spirit: Ft. Myers Beach—The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
EXCERPT FROM HIS LOG:

"No place is really Paradise, however, so every anchorage has its down-side. Matanzas Pass certainly has had its share of warts. At times selecting a spot to anchor has been a risky proposition, due to several half-sunken derelicts and unknown detritus on the bottom. Also, most boats have used two anchors to limit swing room in the fast-flowing current. We prefer to use only one anchor, and will go to almost any length to avoid putting down two. Untangling two chain rodes is something we’ve done once, and don’t want to do again. We have managed to find room in the anchorage to swing freely on just one anchor, but have been harassed by another boater for doing so. And the derelicts haven’t been all half-sunk; some have been still floating and inhabited—by human “derelicts”. The water has been ugly and polluted, often smelling of diesel with a noticeable slick. The shrimp boats on the east side of the bay are purely utilitarian, and do nothing to enhance the visual ambiance. The view from the cockpit has usually been less than pristine, to say the least."

P1130339c.JPG (image)


C. Abandoned Boat Bids
Matt Feeney explained which boats were targeted for removal – two
mentioned in the original bids, and one that just came to light recently. He
asked that, should the third vessel be determined to be abandoned, if the
removal of it could be added to whichever bidder was chosen by Council,
provided the total cost of removing all three boats did not exceed $25,000.
After a brief discussion between Mr. Feeney and Councilman Shenko about
the budget for such undertakings, including available grant money,
Councilman Shenko commended Mr. Feeney because there were fewer
derelict boats in the Bay since the inception of the anchorage.
MOTION: Councilman Shenko made a motion to accept the proposal, to
expend not to exceed $25,000 of the WCIND grant for purposes of removing
derelict vessels from the Town boundaries, and that it be awarded to the low
bidder – Kelly Brothers, Inc. Vice Mayor Massucco seconded the motion.
Councilman Meador asked why so much time had elapsed from the date of
Mr. Feeney’s memo until it was brought before Council, and Mr. Feeney said
he had held it up while waiting for final word from the deputy in charge of the
Sheriff’s Marine Unit as to an official declaration that the third boat was
derelict. Mr. Feeney felt confident that, due to the condition of the third boat,
that the cost of removing it, along with the other two, would not bring the total
above the $25,000 cap"

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by swagman

Personally, I've not much time for people who sit on boats and don't sail them, but I have less time for landlubbers who are silly enough to assume all sailboat owners are the same.

This one statement is probably the crux of the whole thing. Land people don't distinguish me, Chad Lawie, any of you, or those boat bum guys from each other. We're all freeloading people at anchor to them. That's why when they pass laws, the laws affect all of us, and not just the boat bum guys.

Thank you for putting this so eloquently...

I have no solution, but did want to point out a problem we all face.

Congrats on your recent trip across the pond!

[S/V Elusive]

Well, I sure as heck don't wanna hijack Sean's thread but to follow up with Gord & Divecoz' sidetrack ... do a search on Beach Closure Sewage ... first 3 or 4: Beach Closures | Act For Healthy Rivers
Heal the Bay | Beach Report Card | Closures from Sewage Spills
Sewage spill causes beach closures

So, to get back to Sean's point - MY point to that is, Governments will always focus on "little things" (us) that they can "fix" so they can say: "Hey we are saving you all from _______"!! So when us "little things" start making any noise to suggest how we (and they combined) can take care of this problem, WE are usually the ones who 'get taken care of'

We as individuals have NO authority to go over to Joe Slob and say: "HEY! Clean this up, you are ruining it for the rest of us!!" No incentive for Joe Slob to do anything except tell us to go take a flying leap through a rolling donut.

This is not a simple problem and certainly there are no simple single answers - So, there are going to be 'off topic' parts to the solution. IMHO

[chad.lawie]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Anyone got photos or links to Sullivans vacation spot?

no. but here are some photos of ... whatever you want to call them in an anchorage just off the marina I stay at. took these pictures just a few minutes ago (sorry about the low res, i wasn't thinking.. and isn't this a pathetic example of my life, valentines day, and i've got so much spare time I rush right out to take pictures for cruisers forum instead of starting dinner so it will be ready when my girlfriend gets home from work!):

nice, some guys showed up just as I was clicking away:

tide is about half out. when it's all the way out i'm pretty sure those boats will be sitting in the mud.



Sully, as for self police, I might have thought up a solution or maybe even a business venture?
Public humiliation!
have any asp.net skills?
build a website with a search-able database of photos of ugly boats. Track down their owners via their registration numbers and post that too. Notify the owners of their presence on the list.
Let the cities you visit know you will be happy to help clean up, and do all the work, for a nominal fee. of course you have to buy the idea from me.

A local newspaper in Lansing, MI used this tactic for derelict homes. each month they would have a write up and photos of the ugliest homes in the city.