Ruining it For The Rest of Us?

[GordMay]

A good first step, towards assuring our future welcome in community anchorages, would be for each of us to follow the SSCA motto to "Always Leave A Clean Wake" (in all it's permutations).

[imagine2frolic]

The vessel should be capable of moving with, or without an engine. The vessel should not be abandoned. It should not be sinking either, or washed ashore. There are people that abandon the vessels, and take all numbers off of the boat, so they can't be found.

Having a horrible life is not an excuse to fall out of society, and become a recipient of welfare. Yes people do need help at times, but for how long? America has become a country of excuses. Many have an excuse why they are in the condition they are in.

What happened to the good old American drive to better yourself? Some are content to live on welfare, and cry about how little they have. Drugs, drink, abuse, and any other reason is just an excuse. At some point these people need to want to better for themselves, and if they don't. I don't want my tax dollar to support them.

As far as the boats being ratty. Many are used as storage units with debris all over the boat. I am all for people who contribute to society, and work that live on boats, and even anchored out. I live on my boat, and rent my house out, because I prefer to be on the boat. I personally think that looking out over the water, and seeing a thriving community living there is a plus. To look out, and see squallor is another story. Gordmay says it best, no matter what your place in society, just leave a clean wake. Being poor is not an excuse to be pitiful, and a burden to others.

If this is not changed then big brother will start with more restrictions, and those of us that are responsible will lose priveleges, because of the few who have abused it.

[Pelagic]

This is quite a depressing thread and perhaps a portent of things to come……. The next great American Depression, where the tired old yachts, once a symbol of the American dream, sink slowly into the mangroves while their despondent crew struggle to find work pulling heads off the toxic shrimp, that now glow in the dark.

A nautical “Grapes of Wrath”!

[Southern Star]

Well done Pelagic! The poignant imagery in your post should cause all of us to sit back and ponder where we are headed as a society; at the very least, it should cause us to give thanks for our own good fortune.

I should apologize for criticizing an earlier post from the UK which delved into their vastly superior social net and the fact that it made this problem unlikely. I should make it clear that I agree with him, at least to a significant degree, as to the causal connection. As I pointed out, however, the people of the United States have chosen to go down a different path than much of the rest of the world including England, Europe and Canada when it comes to such things as social assistance, health care and education. Which approach is correct? Surely such political discussions are (and should be) outside of the scope of this site; unfortunately, but inevitably that is where this discussion has led.

Let us just say that the problem, whatever its antecedents, is not going away. And that municipalites are going to continue to deal with the symptoms as they are unable to deal with the root causes on their own.

Brad

[caribnsol]

I agree with Gord and the SSCA motto, and I think the place to start is with yourself and the impact that you have. One of the nice things that I have found with cruisers and sailors is that they are always willing to help out when needed. I have read many stories of a boat being lost or damaged and the cruising community jumping in to help. I agree with the postings that state (paraphrase) that we (all of us) will pay the price when the municipalities try to legislate a fix for their problems (whether they be eyesores or actual hazards).

That said, help out when you can, or where the help is wanted, and there will always be some people/boats who do not desire to be helped and just want to be left alone. To a certain extent, this is a very individualistic lifestyle, and we don't all follow the herd mentality.

[spencer53]

Originally Posted by ssullivan

Troutbridge: I think the point of my post wasn't clear to you. I *AM* worried about the new regulations that are bound to be put in place due to these few ruining it for the rest of us. My question was: Is there anything we can do, as sailors, to help police our own before the laws are put upon us?

Don't know if this quote has been responded to yet as I am not about to read through each post here. But I think the simple answer to "is there anything we can do to police our own" is no. About all you can do is police yourself. Many people that take up cruising or live aboard like their privacy. It's one of the many upsides to living aboard in my opinion. The last thing I would do would be to stick my nose in someones "business". Being hauled out with a cinder block tied to my ankles comes to mind. I agree it's a bummer that some give a great majority a bad rap but that is something law enforcement needs to deal with. Just my 2 cents.

[S/V Elusive]

Originally Posted by spencer53

I agree it's a bummer that some give a great majority a bad rap but that is something law enforcement needs to deal with. Just my 2 cents.

Law enforcement can't 'deal with it' if there isn't a law.

[eric58]

some of us liveaboards work ashore, requiring to move every 72 hours is almost punitive. 14 days lets one program it to days off. Santa Barbara passed a law: felony abandonment if you skip town after your boat hits the beach. so you make arrangements for removal or payment schedule if they remove. most of the riff-raff have lost their boats from storms or moved on.

[charley]

I think it really comes down to lack of pride in anything one does that makes them live in total disregard for everything and everyone else around them. Every where you go you see thrash and people who are happy living in it. People have just become lazy in general. It would have never flew about 100 years ago people sitting up on their azzes thinking the world owes them something.

I think if the government comes by and hauls your sunken boat away you should receive a bill in the mail. If they come and rescue you because you are a moron, bill in the mail.

I have seen in the desert in CA the ambulance come to someones aid who was having problems with the heat and being dehydrated. The medics came did their job and handed the person a bill to be paid at time of service.

The town I live in is very green friendly, the city has a service that will haul away your junk car if you call and ask. It is paid for through a non profit agency. If you don't call and ask to have them towed away they will ticket you for aggravated dumping, like a $250 fine.

I say make people responsible for their actions and maybe we would all live in a better world. Whether it be on land or sea.

[rebel heart]

San Diego has a boat bum problem as well. I'm at a marina now, but in the previous mooring field, I woke one night to spotlights, as the DEA/USCG/SDPD/Other Acronyms were raiding a boat that was essentially a floating meth lab (cooking methanphetamines... extremely explosive).

If you can take a nap on a sunny day in a park, then homeless people can get drunk and crash out in the same park. A lot of the problems are really related to public places, nice weather (more homeless in San Diego than Montana), and a high population.

My vote would be to have two types of anchorages, which is sort of what's in San Diego:

- Visitor. Permit is good for 30 days, extendable twice to 90 days maximum. Free, or $5 or whatever. Pass a USCG inspection, and the owners / vessel need to be from out of town.

- Local. (This isn't how I've seen anything run, but I think it's a good idea) Unlimited, but you need a permit, which you can only get by going to the police dock and clearing in. They can (at their discretion) run your license and inspect your vessel. Permit is good for 3,6,9 months (whatever), and can be extended unlimited.

I like that idea because it ensures that you're not a wanted criminal, your vessel can get underway (and you know how to make that happen), and the police have the ability to easily inspect your vessel if they so choose.

[GordMay]

A new Massachusetts law will help reduce expenses marinas incur in disposal of derelict vessels abandoned on their properties, according to the Massachusetts Marine Trades Association.
Goto:
Trade Only Today – The Boating Business Newspaper Online | Articles | Massachusetts marinas get derelict relief

[ssullivan]

I like this idea a lot. Maybe a little fine tuning, but distinguishing between visitors and locals might indeed help.

Originally Posted by rebel heart

San Diego has a boat bum problem as well. I'm at a marina now, but in the previous mooring field, I woke one night to spotlights, as the DEA/USCG/SDPD/Other Acronyms were raiding a boat that was essentially a floating meth lab (cooking methanphetamines... extremely explosive).

If you can take a nap on a sunny day in a park, then homeless people can get drunk and crash out in the same park. A lot of the problems are really related to public places, nice weather (more homeless in San Diego than Montana), and a high population.

My vote would be to have two types of anchorages, which is sort of what's in San Diego:

- Visitor. Permit is good for 30 days, extendable twice to 90 days maximum. Free, or $5 or whatever. Pass a USCG inspection, and the owners / vessel need to be from out of town.

- Local. (This isn't how I've seen anything run, but I think it's a good idea) Unlimited, but you need a permit, which you can only get by going to the police dock and clearing in. They can (at their discretion) run your license and inspect your vessel. Permit is good for 3,6,9 months (whatever), and can be extended unlimited.

I like that idea because it ensures that you're not a wanted criminal, your vessel can get underway (and you know how to make that happen), and the police have the ability to easily inspect your vessel if they so choose.

[markpj23]

Originally Posted by charley

...I think if the government comes by and hauls your sunken boat away you should receive a bill in the mail. If they come and rescue you because you are a moron, bill in the mail....

I agree but the problem will be in the definition of "moron." Am I an adventurer or a moron if I sail my popsicle-stick recreation of a Viking warship across the Atlantic?

The "bill them" approach is growing in popularity - especially in the small towns of the midwest. Now in several communities if you are at fault in a traffic accident and are from out of town, you get a bill to offset the cost of police / fire / ambulance services provided to you. Insurance companies hate it as do the out-of-towners who caused the crash yet believe No-Fault laws mean no responsibility for their actions.

Might be a view of the future.

I firmly believe that behind any issue, follow the money flows in or out of the issue and you will understand why people behave the way they do in that situation. We are not such a gregarious a society after all....

[sluissa]

rebelheart:

So, you want us to have to clear in and out of each port in our own country?

I might be able to understand if there were some short amount of time, say a week or so that you could anchor without needing a permit, if you were just passing through and the permits were only for people staying for long periods of time. However, I do see them trying to charge a lot more than free or $5 for it which could be a problem for people who want to cruise on a budget. Why do it for free when you can charge? Why charge $5 when all these "rich boat people" could easily pay $100? Remember, despite the boat bums, most people consider anyone with a boat bigger than a dinghy to be loaded.

[Tellie]

More rules, regulations, and nanny govmint.

The government that governs least governs best.

I may not like some of my anchored neighbors ways because they aren't up to my snuff but then there are plenty of MYs that think my dinky little 38 Cat shouldn't be seen either. If you start enacting rules to govern others behaviour it always ends up being written by the richest, most powerful and the most scared of our society. I don't like the few delagating to the many. I value my freedom as I see freedom to me. Leave me alone to live as I wish. If others want to drink their lives away on a plastic tub, as long as they don't bother me it ain't none of my business.