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Old 03-01-2020, 09:59   #16
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Not only Florida but much of the east coast of the US. The boat show">Annapolis boat show was pretty much flooded this year and that is apparently a frequent recurring event in the area.

I think that was less than 1/2 day in Annapolis as I recall, but vendors said they had several inches of water in the tents. Can't remember if it was a storm, tide or some combination. Sure got everybody's attention though.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:03   #17
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

SLR is a long term consequence of warming, of course you don’t see it.

When the deniers come up with proof that we are making more fresh water than we are using, and that we are making more soil than we are depleting then I’ll start listening to your arguments on climate change.

The connection is that all these factors are related to the underlying use of resources by the human population. And if the population is not controlled then we will exhaust the resources, one of which is Earths ability to absorb carbon.

Deniers love to dis et some tiny part of the discussion, the other side seems destined to follow down that rabbit hole. All you need is a wee bit of clear eyed perspective to see where we are headed and it’s not good.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:19   #18
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

We are long overdue the next Ice Age.
Geological Cores show Ice Ages are preceeded by warm periods.
5,000 ft of ice north of the Mason-Dixon line is much worse than a small increase in temperature.
Lot's of peoples living depends on global warming hype.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:22   #19
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

I like the prospect of global warming! Unfortunately, there are too many grumpy Gretas not seing the benefits,.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:28   #20
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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All you need is a wee bit of clear eyed perspective to see where we are headed and it’s not good.
Depends on the "we" . The CF "we" is predominently some combination of western European or North American, older, well-off, white. We of CF are mostly headed for comfy retirement, mild adventures, sunsets in beautiful places, fretting about where our wealth will go when we go. Our race is run, all that's left is post-race partying and enjoying our victories, and staying less than mindful of the unpaid debts - ecological, economic and social - that contributed to our success.

The "we" being humanity, especially the ones young enough to be at the table when the bills come due... well, in general, yeah not so great. Possibly real bad. But again, for the progeny of the yacht-owning set, life will probably continue to be pretty good. Hoarding of wealth for inheritance, getting your kids into the right schools... should keep everyone in their proper places.

Might be too soon for another all-out CC thread on CF though, especially with Australia burning up. Should we show a little class and hold off for a bit?
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:42   #21
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

People change their environment. It was always unrealistic to think that we could go on increasing the population by a billion people every 13 years (the rate since 1960), and that it would have no effect on the environment.

There were 2 billion people on the planet in 1927, double the number from 1800. Now there are 7.5 billion.

Makes sense to be more ecologically-minded, but a good bit of the conversations we're having are more driven by politics than concern. Lower birthrates would be a bigger help than a carbon tax in preserving the earth for future generations.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:03   #22
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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Dream On.
According to NASA the rise in Ocean level measured by satellite is precisely ZERO.
Trust not Warmist or Coolist propaganda. All are chasing research $s.
Only trust scientific reports you can verify or from a known and trusted neutral source.
Have you got a link for this?
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:06   #23
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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Originally Posted by malcolmlj View Post
Dream On.
According to NASA the rise in Ocean level measured by satellite is precisely ZERO.
Trust not Warmist or Coolist propaganda. All are chasing research $s.
Only trust scientific reports you can verify or from a known and trusted neutral source.

Not sure where you got this from - Nasa's website says:

If the rate of ocean rise continues to change at this pace, sea level will rise 26 inches (65 centimeters) by 2100 -- enough to cause significant problems for coastal cities, according to the new assessment by Nerem and colleagues from NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland; CU Boulder; the University of South Florida in Tampa; and Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia. The team, driven to understand and better predict Earth’s response to a warming world, published their work Feb. 12 in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"This is almost certainly a conservative estimate," Nerem said. "Our extrapolation assumes that sea level continues to change in the future as it has over the last 25 years. Given the large changes we are seeing in the ice sheets today, that's not likely."

Rising concentrations of greenhouse gases in Earth’s atmosphere increase the temperature of air and water, which causes sea level to rise in two ways. First, warmer water expands, and this "thermal expansion" of the ocean has contributed about half of the 2.8 inches (7 centimeters) of global mean sea level rise we've seen over the last 25 years, Nerem said. Second, melting land ice flows into the ocean, also increasing sea level across the globe.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:18   #24
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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Makes sense to be more ecologically-minded, but a good bit of the conversations we're having are more driven by politics than concern. Lower birthrates would be a bigger help than a carbon tax in preserving the earth for future generations.
I don't think you can disconnect those. It's always a question about [People] X [Emissions per Capita].

The average for US residents is about sixteen tons of CO2/person/year, while the average resident of India causes about two.

Birth rates are (fortunately) going down, maybe even quicker than people previously have expected, but that alone won't really solve anything. Even with fewer people, global emissions might well continue to go up unless we do something about the other part of the equation.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:30   #25
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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SLR is a long term consequence of warming, of course you don’t see it.

When the deniers come up with proof that we are making more fresh water than we are using, and that we are making more soil than we are depleting then I’ll start listening to your arguments on climate change.

The connection is that all these factors are related to the underlying use of resources by the human population. And if the population is not controlled then we will exhaust the resources, one of which is Earths ability to absorb carbon.

Deniers love to dis et some tiny part of the discussion, the other side seems destined to follow down that rabbit hole. All you need is a wee bit of clear eyed perspective to see where we are headed and it’s not good.
As this seems destined to go down the rabbit hole of climate change debate -

As I infer you are a believer in anthropogenic climate change, perhaps you could provide something to clearly and unequivocally demonstrate the quantifiable amount of existing climate change which is attributable specifically to man made causes.

Climate change itself seems undeniable but what fraction we contribute and about which we can control has never been established quantifiably.

Absent that information, this is arguably a natural event.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:36   #26
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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Depends on the "we" . The CF "we" is predominently some combination of western European or North American, older, well-off, white. We of CF are mostly headed for comfy retirement, mild adventures, sunsets in beautiful places, fretting about where our wealth will go when we go. Our race is run, all that's left is post-race partying and enjoying our victories, and staying less than mindful of the unpaid debts - ecological, economic and social - that contributed to our success.

The "we" being humanity, especially the ones young enough to be at the table when the bills come due... well, in general, yeah not so great. Possibly real bad. But again, for the progeny of the yacht-owning set, life will probably continue to be pretty good. Hoarding of wealth for inheritance, getting your kids into the right schools... should keep everyone in their proper places.

Might be too soon for another all-out CC thread on CF though, especially with Australia burning up. Should we show a little class and hold off for a bit?
Nah, it only took 17 posts to deploy the denier label, and you've already obliged with talking points that managed to raise wealth, age & racial divisions in one fell swoop. I'd say the time for showing the sort of class which could result in holding off for a bit has already passed.

But before the truly humorless gang of regulars chime in with their same ol' charts & graphs, maybe we could try and keep some lighthearted banter going with a poll on which post thus far has been the funniest? My vote is for atoll's post #2, with Gord's post #3 close behind. I suspect these two may be as good as it gets from here on out.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:37   #27
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

Dry land is a myth
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:59   #28
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

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As this seems destined to go down the rabbit hole of climate change debate -

As I infer you are a believer in anthropogenic climate change, perhaps you could provide something to clearly and unequivocally demonstrate the quantifiable amount of existing climate change which is attributable specifically to man made causes.

Climate change itself seems undeniable but what fraction we contribute and about which we can control has never been established quantifiably.

Absent that information, this is arguably a natural event.
It's exactly this sort of logical & rational questioning of the science which will earn you all sorts of derogatory labels. Lemme try and anticipate an outline of the responses that will surely come. In what will be the likely chronological order of course.

You must also "deny" the existence of the Holocaust and believe the earth is flat, right? How about all those scientific theories about gravity? A non-believer no doubt. How about a mere shill for fossil fuel cos. & tobacco interests? Oh wait, I know . . . you must be an older white guy who's a yachtie with a comfortable retirement plan? Still no traction? Well, how about arguing how well-settled the science is? A reasonable degree of scientific certainty and all that. Enough to shift the burden of proof so that the current warming can be "presumed" not to be a natural event. If all else fails, there's the minority of scientists who opine that we should be in a cooling cycle right now. Ergo . . . .

Can't compete with posts ##2 & 3, but maybe a (somewhat) humorous broad outline that foreshadows what will surely come. But only for the relative few of us that don't take our "scientific" opinions all too seriously.
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:25   #29
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmlj View Post
Dream On.
According to NASA the rise in Ocean level measured by satellite is precisely ZERO.
Trust not Warmist or Coolist propaganda. All are chasing research $s.
Only trust scientific reports you can verify or from a known and trusted neutral source.
You must be reading a different NASA, than I.

SATELLITE DATA: 1993-PRESENT
Data source: Satellite sea level observations.
Credit: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Rate of Rise 3.3 millimeters per year
https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

Global sea level rise is accelerating incrementally over time rather than increasing at a steady rate, as previously thought, according to a new study based on 25 years of NASA and European satellite data.
The rate of sea level rise in the satellite era has risen from about 0.1 inch (2.5 millimeters) per year in the 1990s to about 0.13 inches (3.4 millimeters) per year today.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...e-accelerating
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:27   #30
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Re: RIsing Seas /Global Warming

Name me one city or country that has sunk?
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