Religious Commercial or Political Personal Signal Flags at Marina slip

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

It was not, it was taxation and big government, that's not to say the Southern aristocracy didn't want to keep slavery, it afforded them that kind of lifestyle, but they knew slavery was an economic dead end, and slavery was on its way out in the South.

Slavery wasn't free labor it was 'cheap' labor, and it was, from an economic point, ineffective compared to the industrial magnate in the North, who didn't have to pay for their labor, just head down to the docks and pick them up fresh and rested from Europe, get them into a factory, if the worker got hurt or something else happened, just discard of him and pick up a new. He didn't have to house the worker, feed him, cloth him etc.

So, slavery WAS on its way out int he South, slowly, resistance from parts of the aristocracy for reasons mentioned. But they knew they had to ditch it and modernize.

Virginia, the Old Dominion. Was the HEART of the South, both politically and culturally, easy to forget this today and with the northern part being, as a native Virginian might say...occupied Virginia, many think it's a northern state. It isn't, in fact, Delaware and Maryland are the two most northern southern states.

No.
Slavery became an issue when the Southerners decided to secede from the Union and create their own country. Because the South was the cash cow, most of the tax revenue central government in Washington got was from the Southern states. And less than half of the population lived in the southern states yet paid most of the taxes etc.

Lincoln and company had no plans on even trying to abolish it for this very reason, Lincoln knew that the only way for the United States to regain control over the Souths resources was a war. It was the only option he had, if not there would have been four countries on the continent right now.

Mexico. The Confederate States Of America, The United States of America, and Canada, perhaps even Quebec making it five different countries.

The war has been sold as a moral war to abolish slavery, the good Yankees VS the evil Southerners. Utter BS, a gross simplification. But it's the one that prevails and it's the one taught in school. Lesson here? the only 'crime' is losing. You win you get to decide the narrative and drum that into future generations, and you keep it real simple and dumb, why complicate things even with a slight nuance? Can't have that. it's black or white. No shades of gray.

Even the term "Civil war" is a misnomer by the way. But it sounds better than "The war of Northern Aggression" but the South started it, not really, and Washington instigated it.

Here's why.

A civil war is two factions fighting over who is going to control central government, well, the South had no more interest in controlling central government in Washington then they had in controlling London during the war for Independence from England.

They wanted out, they saw the writing on the wall of big government, reduced states rights and autonomy etc etc. Let's just say they remembered what it was like when they were all English being ruled overseas from the mother country,and how, again, the crown taxed them like crazy and tried to control them from over there.

As for the, I suppose you are talking about the battle flag of Northern Virginia, that flag represent different things to white Southerns (struggle for independence, yes) and white Yankees and blacks (slavery) , but hey, if you ask a Native American what the stars and stripes represent he would most likely say...genocide.

So there you go.

PS.
The white southerners all share a national trauma, that of the war, it took the south all the way up to the 1960s to catch up because old Sherman went on a burn, rape and pillage campaign all over the South. The African Americans in the South in turn share the trauma of slavery.

The Yankees? They don't share any of those traumas.

Well said.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Go Wildcats

I initially typed in response to your points about Germany and other countries, but realized it was off topic - as much as speaking about the Nuremberg Trials would be interesting to me. The topic is about flying religious and political flags and their meaning in the US and how to handle it. I'm all for freedom of self expression and to hold any view one wants. But not when they advocate discrimination and hate. Many people are shining a light on the cockroaches that roam freely among us espousing their hate, often hiding behind southern pride and guns. I neither drive a "green" car, shop at whole foods or attend rallies. But I do call out racism whether on an internet board or in public or wherever I see it. I've stood between victims of racism and the people delivering it. Many people are making efforts to change the world for the better and not everyone can do it the way you see fit, but every corrective action should be applauded, not ridiculed because they may drive a Prius.

What you see as a silly flag, others see their grandparents being tormented by the same thinking of people waving it proudly. Believe it or, that flag does have a meaning and it's not unity for all people.

I’m sure hitler would have said the jews were spreading “hate” or some such

I’m sure the folks who toss gay folks off buildings in the Middle East would say they are spreading bad think too

The answer is always more speech, not forced silence.

Otherwise the only opinion that will be heard is the one with the most guns backing it.

[weavis]

Given that this thread has involved Hitler the Jews, the American constitution and many other non-boating matters..

I'm switching it off and reminding EVERYONE this a is cruising forum.