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deckofficer · 31-07-2013, 18:37

Eric,

I understand your sensitivity for the locals that are now your neighbors. I just think today with GPS and weather fax, there might be an increase in dreamers becoming cruisers and the OP gave a reality check to those folks.

Capt Rottnest · 31-07-2013, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart

What exactly do you think will happen to the diesel in that tank as the boat is eventually holed by rocks on the beach or the keel broken and then holed?

The rocks are clearly visible in the water, it's five miles north of a 375 person town on a barren stretch of Mexico in an area hardly notorious for it's wealth of Johnny-on-the-spot salvage workers. Oh, and let's not forget the overflowing coffers that Mexican municipalities are known for.

And regarding whatever "accomplishments" you feel necessary before someone can rattle off their opinion, I could grab an ASA 101 student who could have figured this thing out.

I think the point is, Rebel, you wouldnt have anything to criticise if the OP hadn't posted his ordeal in the first place. He posted it as a learning opportunity from formites.

I for one don't begrudge the OP for anything, he made a mistake.. so what? Let he who is fault free caste the first stone.

**boatman61** · 31-07-2013, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

I have a question here...back to the issue of the head sail....If I plotted the position correctly...there was land approximately 150 miles north and closer clocking westerly all around to the south where it was only 50 miles away (mainland...not islands).

Are the people who said headsails are important telling me that 180 degrees of sailing possibility needs a headsail and even under main alone...you couldn't make 150 miles in several days?

Though I have a trawler now...I was a cruising sailor for quite a few years...something sounds weird that even the worst of boats needs a headsail to accomplish that piece of sailing...

I could be wrong as I haven't treated this like an accident investigation yet...but I gotta wonder...

It did sail to the mainland under main only... success came after it was left to its own devices...

psneeld · 31-07-2013, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Rottnest

I think the point is, Rebel, you wouldnt have anything to criticise if the OP hadn't posted his ordeal in the first place. He posted it as a learning opportunity from formites.

I for one don't begrudge the OP for anything, he made a mistake.. so what? Let he who is fault free caste the first stone.

But why post in a forum if you don't expect feed back?

If you just want the world to know of your deeds...have a blog with the "no replies" button turned on.

If you don't think people are going to do more than applaud you...either you are brand new to forums...or shouldn't ever get underway without a paid captain.

psneeld · 31-07-2013, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

It did sail to the mainland under main only... success came after it was left to its own devices...

OK..I get your humor and enjoy your posts

..but am I crazy?

Wouldn't an arc of 180 degrees of possible sail headings and only 150 miles max to go suggest something other than panic?

I just didn't get the posters who said...fore sails out...abandon ship!

Rakuflames · 31-07-2013, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

I have a question here...back to the issue of the head sail....If I plotted the position correctly...there was land approximately 150 miles north and closer clocking westerly all around to the south where it was only 50 miles away (mainland...not islands).

Are the people who said headsails are important telling me that 180 degrees of sailing possibility needs a headsail and even under main alone...you couldn't make 150 miles in several days?

Though I have a trawler now...I was a cruising sailor for quite a few years...something sounds weird that even the worst of boats needs a headsail to accomplish that piece of sailing...

I could be wrong as I haven't treated this like an accident investigation yet...but I gotta wonder...

I won't speak for anyone else, but I didn't say that.

I said that my boat sails like ship without a headsail and that I would have fixed it. With that distance to cover, why wouldn't I want my boat sailing better rather than worse?

And then there's the cascade effect, that something else could go wrong in addition. Fix the problems you have when you find them. I pointed out that using a small amount of headsail in a storm puts strain on the entire sail, and better to fix it to have the headsail as useful as possible.

I really don't think anyone said the boat could not be sailed without the headsail, but someone bet me once that my headsail would only add about half a knot to the boat's speed. we were doing 4 knots on just the mainsail.

I put out the headsail. She picked up to 6 1/2 (speed over ground).

psneeld · 31-07-2013, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I won't speak for anyone else, but I didn't say that.

I said that my boat sails like ship without a headsail and that I would have fixed it. With that distance to cover, why wouldn't I want my boat sailing better rather than worse?

And then there's the cascade effect, that something else could go wrong in addition. Fix the problems you have when you find them. I pointed out that using a small amount of headsail in a storm puts strain on the entire sail, and better to fix it to have the headsail as useful as possible.

I really don't think anyone said the boat could not be sailed without the headsail, but someone bet me once that my headsail would only add about half a knot to the boat's speed. we were doing 4 knots on just the mainsail.

I put out the headsail. She picked up to 6 1/2 (speed over ground).

What does all that have to do with the point of abandoning ship because of a headsail issue?

I don't care what POS boat someone owns....not being able to sail a 180 degree arc without a headsail should be a no brainer....If you can fix it great...but why was the point ever brought up..it's just not germane in my way of thinking...which is NOT abandoning a sail boat because one sail is ripped and less than 150 miles to go worst case scenario...I would probably make landfall long before I hand sewed a jib at sea....

It sounds like tunnel vision brought about by anxiety...but like I said...I'm not holding an accident investigation... I just wanted to now why ANYONE IN THE WORLD would be worried about the headsail with less than 150 miles to go and a 180 degree choice of landfalls.

cheoah · 31-07-2013, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

If something scares you.. don't do it... you'll only make bad decisions and put yourself and possibly other at risk... know your limits and stay within them... not everyone has the mental/physical strength to be a Motesier...
Oh... and you can feed on my carcass anytime you'd care to go through my posts... ignore the few 1000 welcome posts... not many bother doing them but they do rack up ones tally... lolol

I guess I just don't have problem with people bumbling around out there. I get your point, but how does one really know whether they are prepared for the range of situations that may arise? Some just have bad luck.

Moitessier and Slocum are the ones that got me into this whole deal. What happened to them and their boats? What would we have said of moitessier and M. Therese on cruisers forum? I know, I know, the search function

The OP as I recall may have misinterpreted your post and got his hackles up pretty good, no comment there, he just lost his boat and there is a language barrier, in addition to these kind of posts being very difficult to read body language, tone of voice, etc.

I have a soft spot for the underdog, and this poor guy could have any number of issues that prompted him to do what he did, not the least every seaman around him telling him to abandon ship. Luckily not every guy is going to set off with little experience, but there are boats floating around out there everywhere, so it seems, while many more rot at the dock.

I've got no dog in the fight, but I'd rather see 20 gal of diesel spilled in big water than it slowly get pumped out of the bilge, drop by drop, over many years while the boat rots in a marina, and dreams get buried with the skipper. I mean come on, this is hardly an environmental tragedy. How much diesel are we talking about, since half of it was water anyway? I'm sure someone will enlighten me as to how tragic this is, subterfuge to the greater point of allowing a thorough conversation here about this abandoned ship.

Rebel, if you and me and this guy were sitting around the dock talking this out, and he walked away because of immediate and harsh criticism, what would we be left with? Well that is what follows, and I have to ask, hows that workin out for ya? I for one would have been a little more tactful, preferring to have him stick around, but that's a cultural issue I think. Although I have to agree that the guy shoulda known better, this place is loaded with people looking to drop the hammer on anyone less prepared than they. I think that was Boatman's point. Most of these issues like this and guns and whatnot are a self fulfilling prophesy here, almost like they are scripted.

As to the issues, I too am baffled at the circumstances that led to him leaving his boat, but I would have liked to have him around a little longer to learn more

Those who are quick to pass judgement just don't do it for me - it is nothing personal

Jammer Six · 31-07-2013, 18:57

Pearls before swine.

psneeld · 31-07-2013, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheoah

I guess I just don't have problem with people bumbling around out there. I get your point, but how does one really know whether they are prepared for the range of situations that may arise? Some just have bad luck.

Moitessier and Slocum are the ones that got me into this whole deal. What happened to them and their boats? What would we have said of moitessier and M. Therese on cruisers forum? I know, I know, the search function

The OP as I recall may have misinterpreted your post and got his hackles up pretty good, no comment there, he just lost his boat and there is a language barrier, in addition to these kind of posts being very difficult to read body language, tone of voice, etc.

I have a soft spot for the underdog, and this poor guy could have any number of issues that prompted him to do what he did, not the least every seaman around him telling him to abandon ship. Luckily not every guy is going to set off with little experience, but there are boats floating around out there everywhere, so it seems, while many more rot at the dock.

I've got no dog in the fight, but I'd rather see 20 gal of diesel spilled in big water than it slowly get pumped out of the bilge, drop by drop, over many years while the boat rots in a marina, and dreams get buried with the skipper. I mean come on, this is hardly an environmental tragedy. How much diesel are we talking about, since half of it was water anyway? I'm sure someone will enlighten me as to how tragic this is, subterfuge to the greater point of allowing a thorough conversation here about this abandoned ship.

Rebel, if you and me and this guy were sitting around the dock talking this out, and he walked away because of immediate and harsh criticism, what would we be left with? Well that is what follows, and I have to ask, hows that workin out for ya? I for one would have been a little more tactful, preferring to have him stick around, but that's a cultural issue I think. Although I have to agree that the guy shoulda known better, this place is loaded with people looking to drop the hammer on anyone less prepared than they. I think that was Boatman's point. Most of these issues like this and guns and whatnot are a self fulfilling prophesy here, almost like they are scripted.

As to the issues, I too am baffled at the circumstances that led to him leaving his boat, but I would have liked to have him around a little longer to learn more

Those who are quick to pass judgement just don't do it for me - it is nothing personal

Just remember...most criticism on the internet really isn't personal...it's about the facts or decisions or whatever...after about 3 posts beyond the guts spilling...it's more about "theory" or 'personal experiences" than it was about the OP.

In my job it would be easy to think of most boaters as idiots and I really don't...it's a foreign world to most....so I do feel for this guy.

Though I'll shoot a bunch of hole in decisions posted...but like any pro...its not personal...it's clinical. Now some reponders do get a personal shot...but because it's their posting habits that get them in trouble.

Like I posted just a few minutes ago...if you want to educate...get a blog...if you want to participate (including getting your butt handed to you) ..post in a forum.

**boatman61** · 31-07-2013, 19:02

The guy had a bad day.... to many problems he could not handle alone so he hit the button....
I know I crack the odd joke or two about these things but you could say I've been there...
I came close to bailing myself on my 1st attempt to get the H37c to the UK in '04... got dumped on by some heavy seas that punched out a bulkhead N of Bermuda... crapped myself and turned for Beaufort... after 13 days at the wheel fighting a SW'ly and 50 odd miles still to go to Cape Lookout I spotted a cruise ship heading S as we rose on the waves... I was knackered doing 16hr shifts sailing and losing some ground I'd made every time I slept... believe me the thought of warm dry conditions.. decent food not snacks and a ride S was sooooooo very tempting... I did not... I carried on... only to nearly lose the boat at the entrance to Beaufort... it was night time as I closed... my local chart had gone over the side with the wind and being fatigued I followed the wrong lights in... felt the keel kiss the sand and threw the helm hard over to take her back out... luckily Neptune was in a good mood and a wave smacked the stern which helped the pivot enormously and I bumped my way back into safe water as the sails powered up... not something I'd care to repeat...

Adodero · 31-07-2013, 19:05

He doesn't appear to have a windvane mounted, probably worth noting that since no electricity == no self steering.

Jammer Six · 31-07-2013, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Just remember...most criticism on the internet really isn't personal...it's about the facts or decisions or whatever...after about 3 posts beyond the guts spilling...it's more about "theory" or 'personal experiences" than it was about the OP.

Baloney. All posts on the internet are about ego and being right.