Registration vs License (CND)

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks for the info and advice all. You’re right Hobie, on the scale of tasks, registration is pretty easy. As for the flag thing, I interpret that reg as granting the right to fly the national flag, but not precluding others from doing so in different (e.g. licensing) circumstances.

I thought there was a requirement that says all vessels must fly their national flag. No? Either way, I’ve never heard of any enforcement around this.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks for the info and advice all. You’re right Hobie, on the scale of tasks, registration is pretty easy. As for the flag thing, I interpret that reg as granting the right to fly the national flag, but not precluding others from doing so in different (e.g. licensing) circumstances.

I thought there was a requirement that says all vessels must fly their national flag. No? Either way, I’ve never heard of any enforcement around this.

Yup, I think you are right.

And the annual radio license renewal is way more a pain in the arse - not quite sure how I'll manage that when I'm travelling :/

[Hobie_ind]

Originally Posted by alctel

Yup, I think you are right.

And the annual radio license renewal is way more a pain in the arse - not quite sure how I'll manage that when I'm travelling :/

You'll need to keep some kind of Canadian mailing address for both registration and the radio license anyway,.

However, to Industry Canada's credit they weren't bad to deal with in the end. My wife called and discussed our situation with them and we were able to do it every year via email and phone calls (Skype internet calls). They emailed us new licenses every year then so we could just print them out.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...BTW, does anyone know (BP?) if there is an online searchable database for Licensed CND boats as there is for Registered? I can’t find one.

Mike, if you are going outside of US and Canada, have it registered. Foreign custom and immigration people are kind of hard to deal with, so being prepared is key.

Its fairly easy to register now, you just fill the form and send the money. Be prepared to wait a couple of months, I just did that for my second boat. The hard part is to get a unique name... but you can do searches on your own beforehand to find out if your chosen name is already on file - links below for licensed or registered...
Cheers
Vessel Registration Query System

Search Boats by Name, Hull Identification Number, Licence Number, Registration Number

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by alctel

And the annual radio license renewal is way more a pain in the arse - not quite sure how I'll manage that when I'm travelling :/

I just did mine. You can renew (pay) online. I think you can retrieve your actual license online as well … can’t remember if I did this.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Mike, if you are going outside of US and Canada, have it registered. Foreign custom and immigration people are kind of hard to deal with, so being prepared is key. … The hard part is to get a unique name...

Thanks Tatia, I’ll be doing just as you (and everyone else ) suggests.

As for the unique name; no problem there. There is no other boat with our name: Pachina Mia

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Tatia, I’ll be doing just as you (and everyone else ) suggests.

As for the unique name; no problem there. There is no other boat with our name: Pachina Mia

Which means??

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Thanks Tatia, I’ll be doing just as you (and everyone else ) suggests.

As for the unique name; no problem there. There is no other boat with our name: Pachina Mia

Got it!

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Which means??

Papa Alpha Charlie Hotel India Alpha Mike India Alpha

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Which means??

We’ve been told it is Italian (Sicilian dialect to be exact) for something like: My Little Sweetheart. It’s a terrible name for Anglo countries, and too long in general, but it came with the boat. She’s got a history; a pedigree. She’s been around the world (or major parts of it). Doesn’t seem right to take it away from her, even if all our Anglo friends stumble and stammer over it. We basically respond to anything over the VHF that sounds remotely like us.I look forward to sailing into some port and being greeted by someone who remembers her.

Unfortunately though, “Pachina” also has a rather unsavoury slag definition. So far I’ve not been punched out by anyone .

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Got it!

Papa Alpha Charlie Hotel India November Alpha Mike India Alpha

Yup, trying giving that out fast over the radio .

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by alctel

Yup, I think you are right.

And the annual radio license renewal is way more a pain in the arse - not quite sure how I'll manage that when I'm travelling :/

Actually the annual radio station license is super easy and convenient. They even let you pay online now. It's really easy and (gasp!) efficient! Heck I even got my MMSI this year. It was just an emailed form and 4 days later I had my number emaile to me at no charge!

[hamburking]

I've owned both licensed and registered vessels in canada.

LICENSED VESSELS

Licensing has no fees, and is really just a matter of reporting the new owner data. To transfer the license, I think I printed a pdf from their web site and mailed it in. Like 3 months later they sent me a sheet of paper, my "license" document which is mostly boiler plate and very little info about the boat aside from make/model/length along with my name and address. Not very official looking at all. Its intended for small pleasure craft.

However, in the past they have turned over their data to CRA to collect sales tax on the purchase price of your boat. I was contacted 2 or 3 years after the boat purchase to submit sales taxes owing, based on the info I had supplied when transferring the license. At 13% (in Ontario) this is not a trivial amount. However, I've "heard" that so many people were in non-compliance, that "maybe" they have stopped doing that. They currently state that their goal is to have up to date info for search and rescue...you know, in case they find your boat adrift. If any CF readers have more info on that, I would like to hear it...13% is a going to be thousands of dollars when buying a decent boat. I've never bought a boat through a broker, but assume they collect and remit the sales tax on your behalf...again, any CF readers have first hand info on this?

The old system had letters and numbers, which identified your home port...for example anything that started with 50E was from Toronto. But around 10 years ago (?) they changed the whole thing, and numbers now ALL start with ON...which stands for Official Number (NOT Ontario). My ON was ON80101 which seems much shorter than everyone else's ON. I was never able to determine how many digits it should contain, but I never had any trouble (border crossing, insurance, marinas, etc).

So if you see a license that does not start with ON, you know its out of date.

[Redline452]

Originally Posted by hamburking

numbers now ALL start with ON...which stands for Official Number (NOT Ontario). .

Actually ON *does* stand for Ontario; my boat is registered, but my dinghy is licensed and the number starts with QC...

[hamburking]

I've owned both licensed and registered vessels in canada.

REGISTERED VESSELS

Registered vessels go by their NAME. This looks nice on the hull, no numbers. Although you do need to post the Official Number someplace below, on a bulkhead, where it cannot be removed.

There are specific guidelines for font size and location, but in general you only need the name (and port) on the stern in reasonable sized letters. As said elsewhere, you need a unique name which can be easily checked online.

Only a registered vessel can have a mortgage on it. A 25 year mortgage at a good rate makes it much easier to buy a boat at the boat show. This may seem trivial, but the difference between a mortgage and a boat loan is a big difference in interest rates. This is one of those times you may need to use your high school math.

When I bought my first boat, which was registered, the fees for things like transfers and changes were negligible...$5 or so. But soon after, the fees increased. When I bought my next boat (which I imported from the USA) the fees were something like $250 for tranfer of ownership, $300 for change of port, etc. They added up. I admit I have not owned a registered vessel lately, so I'm not up to date.

Correct me if this is no longer true, but registered vessels had a BLUE BOOK, which really was just a fancy folder which contained the registration paper. Very official looking. I bought a boat where the blue book had been lost, and that story would be a whole nother thread. The blue book is what you want to show at the border.

I was never asked to remit sales tax on the private purchase of a registered vessel.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Redline452

Actually ON *does* stand for Ontario; my boat is registered, but my dinghy is licensed and the number starts with QC...

I stand corrected.

[hamburking]

NOT Registered OR Licensed!

Boats with less than 10 hp (like 9.9...LOL) do not require licensing or registration in Canada. I have owned 2 boats like this...and its certainly my preferred means of ownership.

No paperwork, no sales tax, no numbers on the bow, no hassles. I crossed the border (US/Canada) many times...they used the Hull ID number.

Although not required, it is helpful to have a name on the hull. In particular, the US requires all vessels with a motor (no matter how small, dinghies included) to be labeled (name or number).

Please keep in mind, I am not a lawyer or broker. I'm speaking of my own personal experiences of boat ownership. The rules can and do change without notice.