Really bad boat survey

[IdoraKeeper]

Yeah, you got hosed on the survey.. Boat buying is political and particular. Who you deal with is always critical. Get in there and fix the leaks first... You can try to buy the work.. But you will find that only certain jobs should be bought.. Expect great expenses for those.. It's up to you to supervise the work. Learn your systems... Get that propane out of there... Replace the entire system before there is a disaster. Decide to commit your time or get rid of the boat. Boats are not an investment they are an expense. Do not use the boat until it's repaired.. Leaks, defective propane systems are examples of no go items.

[dcstrng]

A couple of obviously experienced members have recommended being present for the survey – if the purpose of the survey is to help you make a decision on the purchase/whatever, that is golden – as the surveyor is working for you. If the purpose is for insurance, financing, acceptance in a marina/club, whatever, you may be strongly discouraged from being present. It totally depends on what the survey is for (and does the surveyor know this). I’ve twice (only) used a surveyor – once was a joke (the joke was on me, the survey was superficial at best – you can read it in an early section of our blog) and the other time was for a wooden boat we were considering. The wood boat survey was done by an old guy (now passed away) who was crotchety, cantankerous and didn’t want me around – but insisted I stay in the yard. It was worth every penny in education alone, but also because it probably saved a gazillion bucks in a purchase of a boat I was infatuated with at the moment. The rest of the “surveys” have been done by me – no qualifications – if I hit something that is beyond my skills, or my desire to tackle, it is a no-go and I don’t look further.

But I think the key is to make sure the surveyor knows who they are working for and knows the question they are supposed to answer – you may get an entirely different (and legitimate) answer to a question of; is the boat insurable/financeable, as versus is it seaworthy to take your family bluewater voyaging.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Flipz1

...Most of these things I found in just a few hours of routine maintenance work...

You should have found most of these, yourself, while doing a proper sea trial.

[tdoster]

The thing with surveyors is there are very good ones and then the rest. The biggest problem is the very good ones are booked up solid with a two month back-log and that becomes a problem when everyone is trying to make the sale happen asap.

Never Ever trust the broker to be in your best interest. Unless your broker is working as a buyers agent, he works for the seller. He wins by the sale going through at the highest possible price.

Interview Surveyors and don't skimp. Do not trust the broker and steer clear of any he recommends unless you did your own homework. If you ask a broker for a recommendation and he gives you one, then trust him less.

You will find it difficult to sue a surveyor for damages unless you can prove gross negligence in performing his job.

NEVER EVER buy a boat that you did not spend every second on board during the survey. You stated you felt you would get in the way... WRONG. You are there to ask questions and learn from the surveyor as well. This is the time for a buyer to spend all the time he needs to decide if the purchase is right or renegotiate based upon what he finds, or walk away. If you were there, you could have asked for it to be fixed or monetary considerations. That is part of the surveyors job to answer stupid "whats this" questions. Don't blame someone else for what you should have done yourself.

Spend a ton of time on the forums prior to the survey. Find out what to look for on the specific make and manufacturer as they all have known issues . Ask those questions of your surveyor before he gets there and IN WRITING. A simple email. Can you verify the condition of the keel bolts and let me know if there are any signs of grounding. Please check that all systems are functioning. What about the rigging, do you go up the mast? ...

I will say that the higher the percentage you paid under market for the boat, the less the surveyor is going to nickle and dime items that should be obvious like door hinges. Since they are obvious, if he includes them on the report, it may mean that you may not be able to insure the boat until they are fixed, or they will become known maintenance items that could exclude a loss. Many surveyors have pissed off clients when they put too much on the survey and can't get insurance until it is fixed.

And finally. EVERYTHING on a boat is broken. You just don't know it yet.

[FlightPlan]

Originally Posted by Flipz1

The ball valve (probably not the correct name) is a device that prevents back-flow once water is pulled out of the boat. When it was locked up, I'd turn off the pump and about a gallon of water would flow back into the bilge from the hose.

This should be a vented loop. Check valves are not good with salt water

[Cyrus Safdari]

Incompetent survey horror stories are common in boat-ownership, welcome! I knew one fella who wrote up surveys purely by photos

Mine missed quite a few big ticket items that he should have caught too but most of the stuff on your list falls outside of a normal survey. For example when it comes to engines, surveyors generally limit things to turning it on and off. Surveyors don't investigate things either.

Incomplete surveys are yet another reason any boat-buyer should put away additional $$$ for repairs. They inevitably will missed many things

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari

Incompetent survey horror stories are common in boat-ownership, welcome! I knew one fella who wrote up surveys purely by photos

Mine missed quite a few big ticket items that he should have caught too but most of the stuff on your list falls outside of a normal survey. For example when it comes to engines, surveyors generally limit things to turning it on and off. Surveyors don't investigate things either.

Incomplete surveys are yet another reason any boat-buyer should put away additional $$$ for repairs. They inevitably will missed many things

I am getting closer to buying a boat in the ~30k $ range but unsure if I really want to fork out 1k $ on a survey if an insurance survey (hull+rig) is already available. I'll do my best to check the boat myself, ask for a sea trial and send an oil sample for analysis (which is more than 99.9% of surveyors do!).

Really, should I spend 3% of the boat value for each candidate? With 5-6 candidates that's almost a new engine...

[Cyrus Safdari]

I spent 50% of my boat value just on a life raft! Don't even get me started on everything else. But no naturally you only survey THE ONE you want to finally buy not every single candidate. And you don't put much reliance on surveys, they will always miss things

All in all, in restoring an old boat, you can spend several times the value of the hull itself.

And no matter how much money you put into you, you'll never recover it.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by GTom

I am getting closer to buying a boat in the ~30k $ range but unsure if I really want to fork out 1k $ on a survey if an insurance survey (hull+rig) is already available. I'll do my best to check the boat myself, ask for a sea trial and send an oil sample for analysis (which is more than 99.9% of surveyors do!).

Really, should I spend 3% of the boat value for each candidate? With 5-6 candidates that's almost a new engine...

Here .... try Marine Survey 101, it will give you an idea on how to survey the boat yourself.