Rank the different boat brands

[john61ct]

Maybe that's a good note for OP to ask mods to close this one.

All you exasperated regulars, save a link to it as an object lesson for subsequent offenders

8-)

[MicHughV]

You can sail the ocean in any boat if you have the gutspah.

Some years ago, I was en route to Bermuda.
I was maybe 3-4 days out, maybe more, can't remember exactly anymore, when I spied a sail on the horizon and soon discerned that it was heading my way.

Sure enuff, about 30 minutes later, a small fiberglass sloop pulled alongside me. I don't recall the make, but it was quite small....and to my mind hopelessly inadequate for ocean sailing...but hey....they were out there.

Incredulously, the couple on the boat, a man and woman, appeared to be in their 90's. They were both naked as jaybirds and brown as a berry. They asked us for " directions" to Bermuda , as their sole navigational tool was a schoolboy atlas. They had left from Key West some time ago. We asked if they needed anything, but they replied they were fine and had everything they needed.

I gave them a " fix" , a compass bearing and pointed at the horizon and told them Bermuda was " thataway"

Nah, I'm not making this up....

They thanked me, started their engine and were soon a blip on the horizon.

Whether they made it there or not, I cannot say. I arrived in Bermuda several days later, and kept an eye out for their boat, but never saw it, but they could have been anywhere.

My point being is that sailing is as much " state of mind" as is " state of boat".
If you really want to do something....you'll find a way !!

[Salt to Sea]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

You can sail the ocean in any boat if you have the gutspah.

Some years ago, I was en route to Bermuda.
I was maybe 3-4 days out, maybe more, can't remember exactly anymore, when I spied a sail on the horizon and soon discerned that it was heading my way.

Sure enuff, about 30 minutes later, a small fiberglass sloop pulled alongside me. I don't recall the make, but it was quite small....and to my mind hopelessly inadequate for ocean sailing...but hey....they were out there.

Incredulously, the couple on the boat, a man and woman, appeared to be in their 90's. They were both naked as jaybirds and brown as a berry. They asked us for " directions" to Bermuda , as their sole navigational tool was a schoolboy atlas. They had left from Key West some time ago. We asked if they needed anything, but they replied they were fine and had everything they needed.

I gave them a " fix" , a compass bearing and pointed at the horizon and told them Bermuda was " thataway"

Nah, I'm not making this up....

They thanked me, started their engine and were soon a blip on the horizon.

Whether they made it there or not, I cannot say. I arrived in Bermuda several days later, and kept an eye out for their boat, but never saw it, but they could have been anywhere.

My point being is that sailing is as much " state of mind" as is " state of boat".
If you really want to do something....you'll find a way !!

Crazy story.

I've been reading Joshua Slocum's book and its inspiring while at the same time scaring the crap out of me. I'm not looking to make a name for myself, just want some great family vacations and see what happens from there.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

Crazy story.



I've been reading Joshua Slocum's book and its inspiring while at the same time scaring the crap out of me. I'm not looking to make a name for myself, just want some great family vacations and see what happens from there.

I made your mistake in reading Slocums book and was inspired to build a steel Roberts "Spray" as my first boat. What could possibly be wrong with that idea??? No need for an autopilot❗️could do 8 knots❗️carry food/water for a year.... shoal draft for exotic anchorages........ Nope[emoji844]. That boat wouldn't do 8 knots if it was lifted to 30,000 feet and dropped and if she reached 6.5 knots under sail it was time to open a bottle of champagne...... at 7 knots we were thinking safety harnesses and life jackets. Because of my life as a marine engineer I fitted her with a big old Gardner diesel that made 1200rpm at full noise and a huge Hundested Variable pitch propeller..... I suspected Slocum exaggerated the sailing performance and my rig was about half his sail area.
I motor sailed around for 11 years on that boat, through 4 serious cyclones and never felt that I had made a mistake choosing that design, it did all that I originally wanted it do ..... I eventually bought an autopilot so the self steering was finally realized and even a spinnaker and an MPS but saw no real performance improvement from that addition in winds where it was safe to fly them.

[Tetepare]

I read pages 1-3 and 6-8, most of the responses indicated one cannot compare cars to boats. I believe this is rubbish.


Our boat is a 1990 Catalina 30TR that I have owned since 1994. I always tell people who inquire that it is the Honda Accord of boats- great at nothing, good at everything. It is, I believe, the easiest and most accurate example of auto vs. sailboat analogies.


Sailboats can be measured by two KPIs: first, quality and fit and second, long term reliability and survivability. Just like cars. Kias may be fine for those who seek the comfort of a marketing warranty, but they are junk. BMWs (post 1998 or so) are wonderful, comfortable performance vehicles that don't hold resale because they are so high strung they fail; need I not discuss the S54 debacle.



The OP was a round, generic question. We need not get into specifics such as the 2008 and 2009 Camry both having the favorable timing chain, albeit with the 2009 using plastic guides, and thus being far less reliable. Yet, it is an indicator that a generally good model can suffer from a small, yet catastrophic change.


Still too, a manufacturer obviously has many models, over many years. The Catalina 34 is a far cry from a Catalina 30 with four more feet. And the Niagara 35 Encore is not the same boat as the traditional Niagara 35.


Returning to the question of reliability and quality as a result of aging, there is again a reasonable comparison. Some age better than others, even forgetting about maintenance. Come on, Swans rarely have waterlogged decks, and the Universal M25XP is bullet proof (like the 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD).


I believe most machines- autos, sailboats, and machine guns- can only be ranked in hindsight. That said, Taurus handguns largely stink, Beretta are OK except the Storm which is complete junk, and SIG is inclined to be pretty reliable, as well as ergonomic and long lasting. Same with boats.


I mean, come on. The Beneteau 423 has laminated particle board "wood". Find me a 1990-2000 Jeanneau or Beneteau that doesn't leak and hasn't ruined the veneered interior. Hunters 1985- about 2005 had such quality control issues that one could easily find significant flaws right from the factory. You want a good, near perfect boat? 1968 Alcort Sunfish. There ya go.


I'm not going to rank manufacturers. It's too hard, particularly because we have a 50+ year spread to consider. I say Moody, somebody says which year, and rightfully so. But nobody is going to compare an Oyster to a POS Hyundai, and it's a stretch to compare even a brand new Hunter DS to a SIG.



Soapbox aside, it's already been inferred, if not said, it's about value and need. Better to set a budget and ask what to use for (weekends/round the world with my new 18YO wife/diving with my buddies) and I am (software nerd/ carefree hippie/ diesel mechanic).


The benchmark though I will always insist is the Catalina 30 with Universal diesel, which is a boring, yet fully servient, Honda Accord.

[Salt to Sea]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I made your mistake in reading Slocums book and was inspired to build a steel Roberts "Spray" as my first boat. What could possibly be wrong with that idea??? No need for an autopilot❗️could do 8 knots❗️carry food/water for a year.... shoal draft for exotic anchorages........ Nope[emoji844]. That boat wouldn't do 8 knots if it was lifted to 30,000 feet and dropped and if she reached 6.5 knots under sail it was time to open a bottle of champagne...... at 7 knots we were thinking safety harnesses and life jackets. Because of my life as a marine engineer I fitted her with a big old Gardner diesel that made 1200rpm at full noise and a huge Hundested Variable pitch propeller..... I suspected Slocum exaggerated the sailing performance and my rig was about half his sail area.
I motor sailed around for 11 years on that boat, through 4 serious cyclones and never felt that I had made a mistake choosing that design, it did all that I originally wanted it do ..... I eventually bought an autopilot so the self steering was finally realized and even a spinnaker and an MPS but saw no real performance improvement from that addition in winds where it was safe to fly them.

Our definitions of inspired may be slightly different. I just wanted to get out and see the world, explore, like he did. I’d never in a million years trust my life to a boat I built myself.

[MicHughV]

like skipperpete, I also built a Roberts...a Roberts 38....why that boat....hmmm....too long a tale to tell here. Read my book !! Like most home builders I was a raw and unskilled boat builder when I started, but by the time I finished, it would be fair to say I was a " pro".
Though I had never welded prior to building that boat, I learned, in addition, I had several " professional" welders come by from time to time to give me some or other tip.
Here's the thing....even a " poor" weld is infinitely stronger than wood or fiberglass.
Nonetheless, my boat was welded both on the inside and outside, it was to put it bluntly " bullet proof"!
Building a boat yourself, means you will be intimately acquainted with every square inch of that boat.
In the many years I owned and sailed that boat, it never creaked, groaned or made any other noise.
When you are way offshore, you have to trust not only your boat building skills, but also navigational and sailing skills....plus, mechanical and electrical skills, plus several others.
I think we are coming from two different directions here. You want to be a lake sailor, I (like many others here) wanted to be an ocean voyager. There is a BIG difference !!

[SlyMcFLy]

Hi from Panama where we’ve sailed here over the last 2 years. You could say that this has been a blue water voyage from La Paz MX to here. We are on a 1973 Formosa 41 ketch a full keel heavy cruising boat. This would be a very poor choice for day sailing around the bay in light winds. Powered by a Perkins 4.107

About 10 to 15 percent of the boats here are multis, leaving those out for now..,

About 75% of the rest are heavy, custom, or older Water boats">blue water boats most with heavy rigging, big keels (few are a true full keel like ours) at least skeg hung rudders.

Then you see some Beneteaus and Jenneaus. Ocean rigged models usually 46 feet or so. There are 2 Amels here. There are 2 Formosa and several 70s of 80s Similar boats such as CT and Hans Christian Taiwan boats.

Although I owned a Catalina in the past and loved it, you see no Catalina’s, or Hunters

Now if you want to daysail around the bay or coastal cruise any of the production boats will do. You can’t go wrong with something like a Catalina 30. Hunters have great layouts, Beneteaus make good cruisers/racers.

So the answer to your question pretty much depends on your requirements and really would need to be limited to today’s production builders because there are infinite varieties of older boats out there

[Barrettscv]

Ask yourself a few key questions before deciding on a brand;

What is the budget
Where will I sail
Where will I keep the boat

Then, after getting down to a range of sizes and a cost range;

Shallow water or deep water
Trailer-able
Performance oriented or comfort oriented

Then;

Construction methods
Keel design
Mast design and ease of raising the mast

Finally: Brand

[Nigelbanks1]

Seems like you have had limited helpful feedback. While everyone will have their options the production (mainstream ) boats would include Catalina, Hunter, Jeanneau, Beneteau. If you plan spending decent money a survey will help you ensure you’re not buying a lemon.
Good luck! Sailing is fun and I learn something new everyday even having done many courses and having various certifications after 40+ years sailing.

[Whosails]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

This begs another question of the OP, which is the prime question for any boat selection: "What is your intended use?"

The referenced link gives some great options for offshore boats and you could look to that list as a partial answer to your original question, but mostly only oriented to the high and mid range of your list.

However, if you plan to do day sails on a lake then most of these boats would be a rather silly choice when a smallish Catalina or even McGregor would fill that need just fine.

So...what is your intended use?

And so, I am am offshore sailor intending to cross the Atlantic soon. I own a Waquiez 33”. Built for offshore and faster than heavy displacement boats. Point being that there are many different choices. One buys according to one’s needs.

[ZITIBOAT]

Depends on how you will use the boat.
I stopped selling used boats because I got tired of explaining that if you want a fast boat it will not be stable; if you want a comfortable boat it will not be fast.
For instance 20 years ago Hunter boats used to be joked about as being a bleach bottle with sails. Plenty of room inside but subject to roll and slow to turn. Maybe that is what you prefer. Fin keels are fast but require constant steering control; cruising keels offer way more comfort in exchange for slower speed and light bottom touching foregiveness. (ever bounce across a sand flat trying to beat the tide on a Bahamas bank?)

[loneshark64]

This is an impossible and even foolish request.....it would be like trying to rank the people that inhabit this planet.

Yeah but fun, maybe? Like rank the marvel superheros or best left-handed home run hitters?

I have an Oday. It's a Chevy. Used to have a Catalina. Also a Chevy. Hunter is a Chevy.

Island Packet is a Cadillac. I prefer my Chevy....

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

In that boat buying world "brands" are meaningless. All that matters is the condition of the boat and it is extremely doubtful that there is any way to sort them other than going to look at them.

I find this pretty hard to accept. This view would suggest that there are not meaningful differences in the robustness of fundamental designs of boat brands, robustness & QC of the construction processes, robustness and quality of the numerous third party fittings. Agree with previous posters that if you are doing day sails on a smallish lake, it probably doesn't matter, but for being more than a bit offshore, in a much less than good weather situation, you would rather be in a Hallberg-Rassy than a boat built to a low price point.
In general, an individual has a budget and typically has to trade off an older H-R vs a newer low price point boat. And yes, I understand that the captain's skills are more important than the boat, but the captain here is an N of 1 and cannot swap him/herself for a great sailor. I suppose you could argue that the wise choice would be a lower price point boat and spend the savings on extensive training (if you believe that such training has that value).
All other things being equal, I gotta believe there are boat brands that are fundamentally better designed, built, and equipped than others. Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but I still believe in the concept that fundamental quality and integrity matter and that the relentless race to the bottom for price is a fool's errand.

[DeValency]

Haha - it is like the question what’s the cost of a suite for an orphan...

But if you insist - look at the average price for multiple boats of the same type, year, length - including new - as many as possible. Now, as you really get what you pay for, the more expensive brands are usually the better - for a reason.