Rank the different boat brands

[pfaffk]

Here is my take on what you are looking for. As i see it there are 3 classes of boats. below is a small subset of the many that are out there



CHEAP: McGreagor if you can't decide if you want power or sail


COSTAL CRUISER: Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau,



WORLD CRUISER: Hallberg-rassy, Sabre, Tartan, Dufar, Jennau

[MicHughV]

I can't believe this thread is still going !!

There is no perfect boat, just like there isn't a perfect woman !!..

Every boat on the market will have it's plusses and minuses. That's why there are 100's of models to choose from. Manufacturers target a certain a certain price point, what the the boat will be used for, etc and build accordingly.

Off course, you can't compare boats, just like you can't compare a VW to the Ferrarri.
Yes, they both go from A to B.....but how they get there is the million dollar question !!

This is really an insane topic !! There must be 1,000'a of variables here.

I have said it before and it bears repeating.

Start with a budget !!. And to this budget add 50% for **** you didn't think you need, but will end up buying anyway.

Anything else, is simply ********. !

[Salt to Sea]

Off course, you can't compare boats, just like you can't compare a VW to the Ferrarri.

Based on what I’ve learned in this thread, a Catalina is the VW and a Swan is the Ferrari. With all due respect, you’re overthinking this. No sane person would tell you a VW is better than a Ferrari. Now, if I’m looking to do a road trip and visit some national parks, than I probably want to look at a VW Bus, because the Ferrari SUV isn’t very practical. That wasn’t the question, although this thread has helped me better think through some questions.

[Davidwwilkinson]

For me it’s a Kraken Yacht for bluewater cruising, they retain all the benefits and safety of heavy displacement yachts, but not the old fashioned looks, or bolt on keels etc

Lucky enough to have purchased a 50 and love it.

Www.krakenyachts.com.

[Colonel Bob]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

I’m hoping this doesn’t come across as too dumb of a question, but I’m looking for some help in understanding boat brands/manufacturers.

I understand there are too many to cover them all. I understand it will be very subjective. I understand everyone has different sailing goals and experience. Ok - with the disclaimer out of the way - who wants to sort the different boat manufacturers into categories?

Maybe relating to cars would be helpful.

The Kia/Hyundai tier: boats that are super cheap, good for beginners, and you won’t lose too much sleep if it sinks due to the cost (no offense to Kia owners, I’m sure they’re great cars).

Honda Accord/Toyota Camry tier: solid boats, no bells or whistles, won’t turn any heads in the marina, but will get the job done and probably hold their resale value - based on my 3 months of hanging out around this forum, I’d guess Catalina’s would go here.

Lexus tier: higher end of boats that average people can afford

Feel free to add higher tiers if you’re bored, but they’re out of my range. I want to start looking at boats and would love a cheat sheet to help me quickly sort the brands.

Edit: looking at monohulls, but not opposed to multis

Not exactly on point, but your idea of car class categories is way out of date and not conclusive to making a good boat choice. Kia and Hyundai have been knocking the socks off of the "Lexus Tier" for years. My Genesis sedan is the equivalent of a S Class Mercedes or a LS400 Lexus for half the price. Ditch the preconceived notions and evaluate the eaches and not the "tiers".

[paul2884]

As said by sever people before it not a real question, it like asking what's the best car. A farmer and a race car driver wouldn't want the same thing.
We sail a 39foot centre board boat great for what we do but we have friends with a deep fin race boat who dont rate our up wind performance but a 2.5m draft wouldn't be any good to up.
Start with your budget, what type of sailing you enjoy then see what your options are going to be. Asking for a comparison between half a dozen different similar boats from different manufacturers might give you some useful answers, maybe...

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

Based on what I’ve learned in this thread, a Catalina is the VW and a Swan is the Ferrari. With all due respect, you’re overthinking this. No sane person would tell you a VW is better than a Ferrari. Now, if I’m looking to do a road trip and visit some national parks, than I probably want to look at a VW Bus, because the Ferrari SUV isn’t very practical. That wasn’t the question, although this thread has helped me better think through some questions.

But, as your example shows, a VW Bus is indeed better for that use case.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

This is an impossible and even foolish request.....it would be like trying to rank the people that inhabit this planet.
There must be 1,000's of variables....makes, models, years, draft, ketch rig, schooner rigs, catboats, center cockpit, aft cockpit...the list is endless !!
On top of that....like the saying goes...some people like blondes and some people like Brunette's, so there is no accounting for personal taste, budgets, etc.
West coast boats are not always found on the east coast...
You can get steel boats, fiberglass boats, wood boats, concrete boats, plastic boats, composite boats....
Race boats....cruising boats...
I'm sure you get my drift.
If you are looking to buy a boat...start with a budget...this will narrow your search considerably. No point in walking down marina's eyeballing mega yachts with a VW budget. Likewise, peruse online....Yachtworld and many others...find a broker...etc...

Better to find a boat you like...and can afford...then ask the question...is this a good boat ??

You hit the nail on the head! Three years ago I was looking for a cruising boat. After a couple of deals fell through I had a health issue that postponed moving forward. Over the next few years, I've reconsidered the type of boat as well as the type of cruising I will do. During this time I've owned 2 boats. Both trimarans. Yet very different. My current boat is for sale as I bought it specifically to race. Now that I am ready to go cruising again the question is do I buy a boat to go full time cruising or just part-time? Entirely different boats. The biggest difference is in the cost. Cost meaning purchase, maintenance, upgrades, and operating costs. Obviously, if I am part-time coastal cruising I don't need a true offshore boat. I will want to buy something less expensive if I have a boat and living expenses on land. If I decide to go offshore then I can put more money towards the boat.

In your case, you need to decide what kind of sailing you want to do? Then what is your budget? You will quickly start to see the differences in boats. For instance, I have a friend who went coastal cruising and then went through the Bahamas He and his wife spent 2 years on the boat. He was very happy with his 41’ Beneteau. He did say they slept in the v berth as in certain conditions at anchor the waves were slapping the stern which was very annoying. I have another friend who has over 30,000 miles cruising single-handed under his belt. He doesn't live on the boat full time though. He has crossed oceans. He has a 60’ performance-oriented catamaran. One cost $100k and the other is a multimillion dollar boat.

So first look at what your budget is? Then what do you want to do? Then you will discover what you need in a boat. Then with those parameters you will have a checklist to measure boats against.

[CaptJPMcGuire]

Plastic, sloop or cutter, heavy rigging, good ground tackle , windlass, 30' -36'
Passes a good survey. Has what you want -looks good to your eye--fits a simple budget.
Something you buy right --keep right --sell right and buy the best one.
If you buy the wrong boat --your finished.
If you buy the right boat you'll be complete
If you find the wrong boat was a better choice than the right boat --your completely finished!

[Malahi]

Hi, I think I know exactly what you mean, and I don't think it is a dumb question.

I only know a bit about European boats. The cheap end are Bavaria, Beneteau and Jeanneau - aimed at the charter market. I would put Beneteau and Jeanneau ahead of Bavaria for quality. Actually the fittings on a standard Beneteau are of high quality and they sail well. They just are pretty basic inside. Many standard ex-charter boasts have sailed the Atlantic quite safely.

Next stage up are Dufour and Hanse. Smarter internal fit out and more bells and whistles, but still mass-produced.

For blue water cruising you might want to look at boats designed for North Sea waters, such as the Hallberg Rassy, Naiad or Malo. But these are much more expensive. If you are looking at second hand boats on a fixed budget you can get a 5 year old Beneteau for the price of a 20 year old Rassy.

Top of the range are the Oysters and Swans. Beautiful boats which sail in any conditions and will keep you safe (but not your bank balance!).

Is this the kind of feedback you wanted? If so, perhaps someone can help you with transatlantic boats and where they fit in.

Whatever you get, enjoy it. Try to find something which you can handle easily and take out a lot. They say that the greatest fun comes from the smallest boats. I have the best of both worlds - a 43 foot Beneteau in Greece which is very comfortable for long term living and will accommodate family, including grandchildren; and a 40 year old Drascombe Drifter in Cornwall which sails like a dinghy and can creep up all the muddy creeks.

[Otium]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea

Based on what I’ve learned in this thread, a Catalina is the VW and a Swan is the Ferrari. With all due respect, you’re overthinking this. No sane person would tell you a VW is better than a Ferrari. Now, if I’m looking to do a road trip and visit some national parks, than I probably want to look at a VW Bus, because the Ferrari SUV isn’t very practical. That wasn’t the question, although this thread has helped me better think through some questions.

Hi Salt to Sea;

Welcome to the beginning of the most fun you'll have for the rest of your life!

I started sailing 30 odd years ago on 18' little sloops...great fun, but as many here have pointed out you quickly want more, bigger, faster!

I slowly graduated to 20' then 21' then 24' and now own both a 27' and 31' one a sloop and one a ketch rig.

Many have given great advice here already so I won't re-hash any of that.

I'll only pass on what I learned the hard way (read expensive $$$$ ), in the hope I can save you from some of the same...though for most of us, it can be the only way we learn...

Take your time in figuring out what you really need right now. What are your requirements for your boat?

• Start with: What are you going to do with it? (Be as specific as you possibly can. Visualize exactly what your going to do with your boat.)
• How do you sail it? Pleasure cruise for you and wife? Kids? Friends? or are you a Racer? Or do you intend it to be a Passage maker crossing oceans and circumnavigating the globe?
• Where will you sail it? Freshwater/Saltwater, Lakes, Rivers, Coastal, Islands, Oceans? High Latitudes where it's cold some or all of the year? or Tropics?
• When will you sail it? A few hours a week? A few days each week? A few weeks each month? A few months out of the year? or are you going to live aboard 24/7/365?
• What's the weather like where you'll be sailing? What's the water like?
• What is your purchase budget? What is your maintenance budget? (Many will tell you with much more experience than I, boat costs (both initial and ongoing), will increase exponentially with boat length. One old salt told me many years ago that once you get around 20', the cost goes up $10k per foot for initial cost. (I think that may be light now.) And it seems pretty easy to spend $100-$500 per foot annually on maintenance. (But some boats are simpler and less costly to maintain than others of equal length. This is where lurking on the Cruisers Forum and scanning all boating literature constantly will really payoff in the long run.) As a rule of thumb though, the smaller and simpler a vessel is; the less she will cost initially, and the less she will cost to maintain every year.
• How handy are you? Do you intend to do all the work on the boat yourself? or do you intend to have everything done by someone else?

As you get a crystal clear picture in your mind of what 'your' boat must be to make you happy. You will understand what quality and value mean to you in terms of a boat. See you nailed the concept up above when you talked about a scenario when a VW might be better than a Ferrari. I couldn't have said it better myself. I personally love solid old boats that have proven themselves cruising the world. But that's just me. Their slow and small inside, but it's what I value, and they meet my requirements for sailing. To me they are the best boats out there. But many others have very different requirements for their best boat. I had an old mentor once that told me; "The definition of Quality is the conformance to Requirements", he said the reason most folks didn't feel they had purchased something of quality, was that they didn't really know what they required. Understanding your unique requirements will enable you to have a custom tailored yard-stick to measure against the boats you look at.

I would be cautious of discarding or eliminating boats based on an asked price, or a type of boat that just because of it's brand you might normally think are too expensive for you to ever afford. Again, once you know exactly what your boat must have for you, you can watch and learn which boats have those qualities...and that's when you can find amazing deals.

Lastly, read, read, read...there are tons of great books out there on selecting and acquiring boats...also, read books on all aspects of sailing, and books on boat construction and maintenance. Many of the most knowledgeable sailors I have met are self-taught (Many are on this Forum). Keep asking questions, and listen to the answers.

Good luck in your search, and enjoy learning and exploring this wonderful world! Oh, and one last thing; Whatever you decide are your requirements for your perfect boat right now...be prepared for them to change and/or evolve over time. Nearly everyone's do...it's not a bad thing...it's why very few sailors only ever own one boat...even when we think we know exactly what we want/need...

[Capt Phil]

You should talk to a number of delivery skippers who have both cruised and delivered a variety of different vessels both sail and powered through a variety of passages, weather and get their opinion on best, worst, favoriteas, never would agree to take a delivery of, etc.,... while my experience is not as vast as some, there are a few I would not take out of the harbor, while there are others I would feel comfortable delivering around the world!
Phil

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

You should talk to a number of delivery skippers who have both cruised and delivered a variety of different vessels both sail and powered through a variety of passages, weather and get their opinion on best, worst, favoriteas, never would agree to take a delivery of, etc.,... while my experience is not as vast as some, there are a few I would not take out of the harbor, while there are others I would feel comfortable delivering around the world!
Phil

Phil, I bet that the OP would like you to follow up your general statement with the names of those marques that you are talking about, and your reasons for making such statements.

As I see it, that is exactly what he seeks!

Jim

[Apollo366]

Originally Posted by Salt to Sea View Post

I’ll probably be looking for a 20-30’ (I know that’s a huge range) used boat for under $10k and maybe even under $5k.

Just do what you posted above, can't lose, but be sure to research all the likely candidates you come up with, you'll learn a lot doing that and "kicking the tires"

Trailerable seems nice, but it limits the amount of use you get out of her. But with the smaller boats should increase the resale value, cause you're going to move up or out sometime!

[Salt to Sea]

I found this HBR article interesting and very applicable .

https://hbr.org/2019/09/the-dangers-...rical-thinking