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Old 21-08-2017, 14:49   #16
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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Not being able to see the boat is my issue not the seller restricting viewing.
I'm going to say something very strong and I intent it constructively. Given that statement, you should not purchase a boat. Not any boat.

If you can't make the time or money or whatever is keeping you from seeing it, then how will you make it to own it. Boats require care and you don't care enough about it to see it.

There are thousands of persons who own boats they can't make the time to see or don't want to spend the money to maintain. Time is the number one restraint keeping boat owners from boating. If it's that limited, rent or charter. It's just to me a very bad sign that you can't get there to see it.

Facts and numbers and books and brokers and surveyors and all the others can never tell you how the boat will feel to you and your family. People see the "perfect boat" all the time but go to it and step on it and run fast away. I've never bought a boat without personally running it or one identical when getting a new build. I've been on some incredible boats before buying that we didn't even necessarily know why but we both knew weren't for us. People talk about the personal relationship between boat and owner almost as if it's a person. Would you marry someone you'd only seen on a dating site? Or wouldn't you want to actually meet in person first?
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Old 21-08-2017, 15:16   #17
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

I would have to agree that buying it sight unseen is unwise. Boat pictures always make a boat look in better condition than it is, sometimes significantly, and descriptions are worthless. If I could count the number of people I know who have travelled to a boat, including newer boats, thinking it was the boat for them only to be return home disillusioned and disappointed, well, it would be a large number.

It sounds like you're unwilling to travel to where the boat is not because of cost but because of where it is. Is that the case? Care to tell us why? If this is an almost new cat, with the asking close to purchase price, we're probably talking north of $500k at the very least so a plane ticket to almost anywhere is an insignificant investment.

As far as questions to ask the broker, the first thing I would request is a list of recently sold comps, which they can pull through YachtWorld. That will give you a view of what that boat has sold for in the past year or so and you can start to build the foundation of a fair offer.

I would also ask them if they are familiar with international transactions, dealing with funds, documentation, insurance, etc. They should handle all of that as part of their commission and with an international purchase it not only can be time consuming but requires some prior experience and expertise.

I have a friend who flew a surveyor to Abu Dhabi to survey a boat that was much less than what you're likely spending. He found a surveyor with specific expertise in the boat he was buying. He considered it money well spent. If you elect not to travel, choose your surveyor very carefully.
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Old 21-08-2017, 15:38   #18
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

I have been trying to avoid starting a political storm here but I will answer. The boat is located in a United States Territory. I have made a political and economic decision to not travel to the United States and am limiting my business contact with companies located there.

In fact, were this a sale from a US based company, I would not even consider it. Please don't take this as a personal attack on your country but given the current administration, I chose to make my stand on travel and business with or in the United States as much as possible
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Old 21-08-2017, 15:57   #19
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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Originally Posted by rallyman1122 View Post
I have been trying to avoid starting a political storm here but I will answer. The boat is located in a United States Territory. I have made a political and economic decision to not travel to the United States and am limiting my business contact with companies located there.

In fact, were this a sale from a US based company, I would not even consider it. Please don't take this as a personal attack on your country but given the current administration, I chose to make my stand on travel and business with or in the United States as much as possible
Let me make sure I have this right.

You won't travel to a US territory to see the boat.

You will use a broker and surveyor and have the boat checked in a US territory.

You will then have it moved outside the US and purchase it.

I applaud taking a stand on issues (please asking others not to argue the stance). It just seems like you're using surrogates to do that you won't and I'm not sure how much of a stand then it is. It's a bit like tax avoidance, that you have a plan basically doing the same thing but you just don't have to set foot in the US.

So, what would I do? Every US territory I know is very close to a non-US territory. I would pay them to move the boat to a non-US territory and then be there for the survey and the sea trial. If you didn't buy it, then you'd be out the cost of them moving it plus survey and sea trial but not all that much above normal. You plan to have it moved anyway if you buy it. I've seen boats moved between the Bahamas and Florida, both ways, for the purposes of surveys, sea trials, sales.

So, offer subject to sea trial, survey and your approval and to the boat being moved to a non-US territory for the survey and sea trial and then you go there for them.
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Old 21-08-2017, 16:38   #20
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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Let me make sure I have this right.

You won't travel to a US territory to see the boat.

You will use a broker and surveyor and have the boat checked in a US territory.

You will then have it moved outside the US and purchase it.

I applaud taking a stand on issues (please asking others not to argue the stance). It just seems like you're using surrogates to do that you won't and I'm not sure how much of a stand then it is. It's a bit like tax avoidance, that you have a plan basically doing the same thing but you just don't have to set foot in the US.

So, what would I do? Every US territory I know is very close to a non-US territory. I would pay them to move the boat to a non-US territory and then be there for the survey and the sea trial. If you didn't buy it, then you'd be out the cost of them moving it plus survey and sea trial but not all that much above normal. You plan to have it moved anyway if you buy it. I've seen boats moved between the Bahamas and Florida, both ways, for the purposes of surveys, sea trials, sales.

So, offer subject to sea trial, survey and your approval and to the boat being moved to a non-US territory for the survey and sea trial and then you go there for them.
And this is my plan. If I going to pay the money to buy the boat, I plan on making the deal contingent on survey and sea trial outside the US. I am planning, however that that may not happen. I don't think the boat has moved much since it got to the dock so the survey and sea trial may have to be completed in situ.

And I am willing to spend the money to stand up to my beliefs.
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Old 21-08-2017, 16:53   #21
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

This is an honest question...Why not just buy a boat where you are or a non US country to begin with?
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Old 21-08-2017, 17:17   #22
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyman1122 View Post
I have been trying to avoid starting a political storm here but I will answer. The boat is located in a United States Territory. I have made a political and economic decision to not travel to the United States and am limiting my business contact with companies located there.

In fact, were this a sale from a US based company, I would not even consider it. Please don't take this as a personal attack on your country but given the current administration, I chose to make my stand on travel and business with or in the United States as much as possible
Wow. Kudos to you for standing up for your principles and for acknowledging it here. I salute you sir.

That said, I think you're in a bit of a sticky wicket.

Perhaps you might get someone here to take a look at it, if you're lucky a current owner of the same model. I'm assuming it's somewhere in FL or at least on the east coast. I'm just thinking if you're at the mercy of brokers and surveyors you're sort of fighting with both hands tied behind your back.
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Old 21-08-2017, 18:42   #23
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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This is an honest question...Why not just buy a boat where you are or a non US country to begin with?
This is an almost new boat that could, maybe, might be, possibly be cheaper that brand new. If savings can be had against depreciation of buying a new boat, it might be attractive.
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Old 21-08-2017, 18:46   #24
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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Wow. Kudos to you for standing up for your principles and for acknowledging it here. I salute you sir.

That said, I think you're in a bit of a sticky wicket.

Perhaps you might get someone here to take a look at it, if you're lucky a current owner of the same model. I'm assuming it's somewhere in FL or at least on the east coast. I'm just thinking if you're at the mercy of brokers and surveyors you're sort of fighting with both hands tied behind your back.
Funny you should mention that.I have been advised of just such a thing by PM. I have been on a different hull number and like the boat a lot. I don't love it but what I love, is twice the money and a 18 month wait if I order now
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Old 21-08-2017, 19:42   #25
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

There are lots of bad boats close to home. While I can understand and support your resentment of the present US government, it sounds like you are looking to argue rather than buy.

Charter for a few months until our Government resigns.
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Old 21-08-2017, 20:45   #26
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

The point is moot now as the boat has an accepted offer on it. It was going to have to move too fast for my liking anyway. I am the kind of guy that takes a year to by a car. And works the deal until it's right for me. I suspect that will rule me out of a lots deals. I was thinking about moving quickly on this one but looks like my quickly is still too slow.
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Old 22-08-2017, 08:37   #27
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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The point is moot now as the boat has an accepted offer on it. It was going to have to move too fast for my liking anyway. I am the kind of guy that takes a year to by a car. And works the deal until it's right for me. I suspect that will rule me out of a lots deals. I was thinking about moving quickly on this one but looks like my quickly is still too slow.
Well as the saying goes ........ "thems the breaks"
Probably just well.
Most interested to know if this was production cat as you mentioned that you ideally would only be needing the boat in 18 months. yes some production models (new models) have a long lead time others not ..... and in that time frame I am sure a few will come to the second hand market. Besides not many cats are built in the USA
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Old 22-08-2017, 10:35   #28
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Re: Questions to ask a buyer's broker

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Well as the saying goes ........ "thems the breaks"
Probably just well.
Most interested to know if this was production cat as you mentioned that you ideally would only be needing the boat in 18 months. yes some production models (new models) have a long lead time others not ..... and in that time frame I am sure a few will come to the second hand market. Besides not many cats are built in the USA
It is a Lagoon 450s. I was only intersted in moving my plans forward as there was a potential savings of roughly 75-100k on a virtually new boat. It's not my dream boat but I have looked at one a couple of times and I like it. The first time was a 450f and it did nothing for me. But the 450s I like more. I just can't afford the dream boat, a St Francis 50. The 12-18 months was time to take lessons and build experience before taking over my own boat. So I am back to my original plan.
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