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Old 29-05-2021, 18:46   #1
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Question about a questionable standing rigging.

I am looking at a monohull sailboat in the mid 30s range and I like it quite a bit, the price, condition, size are all right.

The one thing stopping me is the rigging.

The mast has a single lower and upper shroud on either side coming down to a single chainplate that both shrouds are connected to.

The shrouds are swept back behind the mast and not on center with it to avoid pumping I assume.

It looks like wire gauge is increased to deal with the lack of a second lower and the chainplate is pretty beefy, I could always replace it with even beefier.

My question is for those of you that are experienced would this worry you for cruising around the Caribbean?

I know people have broken chainstays and unloaded that side to jury rig a repair until they got home.

It seems like if you lose a upper shroud out in windy conditions the upper half of your mast is coming down anyway, and it might still come down losing a single lower so is there an actual point to the standard redundancy of two lowers and 3 chainplates per side, or should I feel alright having fewer and beefier parts?
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Old 29-05-2021, 18:54   #2
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pirate Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

The make of boat would help..
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Old 29-05-2021, 18:59   #3
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Id prefer not to, the deal is very good and I do not want it taken out from under me.

My question is solely about the rig setup.

Something I have noticed is some catamarans are set up like this and I have read no ill thoughts about it even though their loading on the rig can be higher but on monohulls the standard seems to be two lowers and an upper on either side for a sloop rig.
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Old 29-05-2021, 19:06   #4
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Assuming the standing rigging (including chainplates and their supports) are all in good shape, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Those boat designers are generally pretty astute fellows. Your concern is with the present condition of the rig.
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Old 29-05-2021, 19:06   #5
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Without divulging too much.....

Is it a production boat?
Is it “as built” or has it been modified?

If it is as original and it is not really obscure you should be able to find some history on the pedigree. Do you know how to use the “search” function here? You need to use the “google” slot for good results.

If it is either a rare bird or been modified then it is a more difficult question.

Perhaps try to find some production boats that are very similar and see what their issues are.

Maybe take a look at some Hunters which have the B&R rig. I believe any failure in any one wire brings the rig down? Some people are very comfortable with that. We looked at a 43’ schooner with B&R rigging. I paid for an opinion from Ted Brewer. He was fine with it. Me? I am not so sure.
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Old 29-05-2021, 19:11   #6
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

It is a production boat and as built but information is hard to find.
The production run was pretty limited.

I was curious if others have the same rigging setup.
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Old 29-05-2021, 19:23   #7
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Well, our rig is a bit bigger, with two sets of swept back spreaders, diamonds at the top, caps, intermediates and a single lower, plus a baby stay, solent stay and fractional forestay and then a topmast backstay and runners. All the shrouds come to a single massive chain plate on each side. We don't worry much, but have pulled and inspected the chain plates which are made from 2205 s/s and, after 30 years and ~ 140,000 miles they are flawless.

While the single shroud chainplate rig lacks redundancy, one has only one chainplate on each side to monitor and maintain. This simplicity reduces one's reluctance to do the maintenance!

Bottom line: if the rig is as designed and the chainplates can be inspected, it is a nice, simple rig and should not be dissed because of design.

My opinion, based on some years of experience.

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Old 29-05-2021, 19:26   #8
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Single lowers and swept spreaders are very common on fractionally rigged boats - even 19/20 fractional. I don't see why that wouldn't work on a masthead rig too.

Look at the X-Yachts. I believe that they are almost all rigged this way.
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Old 30-05-2021, 10:17   #9
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

We have single lowers, swept spreaders and single chainplates on our 1981 J/36. We've been out many times in over 30-40 knots of breeze, beating, reaching and running for extended periods racing and cruising between NY and ME. Mast is still up.
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/j36
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Old 30-05-2021, 14:11   #10
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider0804 View Post
Id prefer not to, the deal is very good and I do not want it taken out from under me.

My question is solely about the rig setup.

Something I have noticed is some catamarans are set up like this and I have read no ill thoughts about it even though their loading on the rig can be higher but on monohulls the standard seems to be two lowers and an upper on either side for a sloop rig.



I.
've done anout 83K miles with such a rig.


The only problem is with mast pant in choppy seas - most likely in English Channel Approaches.
The original mast section was inadequate and fatigue fractured.
Never any problem with the rigging - I'd dissuade from thinking of increasing the diameter os rig wire - extra weight, raises centre of gravity and adversely affects windward ability and comfort at sea.
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Old 30-05-2021, 14:41   #11
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

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Originally Posted by chasfgr View Post

I'd dissuade from thinking of increasing the diameter os rig wire - extra weight, raises centre of gravity and adversely affects windward ability and comfort at sea.
+1 ^^^
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Old 30-05-2021, 14:48   #12
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

It seems a little silly to me to "like" a boat but then get into questioning the rigging design. If you question the builder/designers rigging how could you be comfortable with the boat?

To the OP, if that is the rig designed for the boat I am as comfortable with it as any other. But of course that is me.
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Old 30-05-2021, 19:39   #13
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

My Hunter 26 has a B&R rig, that is, swept back spreaders and no backstay. Rather than chainplates as such there are u-bolts, like those used for bow eyes, that go through the hull-to-deck joint and a stainless steel backing rod. It is a fractional rig with the cap shrouds and forestay all terminating about 5' below the top of the mast.


The advantages are that it is comparatively easy to rig and step (important in a trailer sailor), the cockpit and stern rail are uncluttered, and the bimini simple and straightforward. I believe the rig is well designed as far as ultimate strength is concerned and while the H26 isn't a boat designed for, say, a Pacific crossing, the rig is sound.


It does have more flex and in particular the forestay gets a little floppy when off the wind or when sailing under jib alone, unless the topping lift is set and the boom sheeted down firmly. I see this as one of the design tradeoffs inherent in the H26, which had the design goal of providing maximum usable space in a boat that was practical to trailer launch.


I would not choose a boat with a B&R rig under other circumstances, that is, where the length, beam, displacement, and draft of the boat are not constrained by the goal of being able to trailer launch unassisted.
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Old 31-05-2021, 15:58   #14
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Re: Question about a questionable standing rigging.

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
It seems a little silly to me to "like" a boat but then get into questioning the rigging design. If you question the builder/designers rigging how could you be comfortable with the boat?

To the OP, if that is the rig designed for the boat I am as comfortable with it as any other. But of course that is me.
I had not seen this particular setup on a larger cruising style boat and I figured people on here are more knowledgeable than me.

I appreciate the replies.
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