Priorities of boat buying.

[Cheechako]

Cored? Uh oh...

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Cored? Uh oh...

All 3 are cored above the waterline, solid below. I have no desire for core below.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Hmmmm..... Maybe I should have just posted one response to everyone. Oh well....



Since money is a limited resource, I am asking which is 'required' and which is an 'I wanna'. In that light, it is all related.

I did list the required and desired equipment in my post. They are the same for cruising the S Pacific if you buy a 38 foot boat or a 46 foot boat. Some of the gear will be more expensive for the larger boat, such as the anchor gear.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

In one of Steve Dashew's books, he suggests buying as long a waterline as your budget can afford. Do you agree with this statement?

Definitely disagree. Suppose, my budget easily allows a 100’ LWL boat. However, I would never be able to manage it by myself. Even 40’ is handful in many situations.

And yes, no generator.

[valhalla360]

One suggestion: Don't plan to buy the boat and immediately refit.

Go do some cruising first and see what you really miss. No it won't be a perfect analogy (cruising the S. Pacific) but it will give you an idea of what you will or will not miss. Make sure the boat is functional and safe but after that let your needs drive the upgrades.

We started out with a big list of upgrades but headed out before they were complete...almost half the list never got done because once we were out there, we decided they weren't needed (We did decide a generator was something we wanted and 3 months in picked one up).

[Hasbeen]

I did 53,000 miles around the pacific in a 40Ft 33 water line boat. I don't know all the answers, but have seen most of the problems.


I believe the water line length comes in somewhere about 4th or 5th in importance when choosing your boat.


First & most important is hull shape. You should chose this for the sailing you expect to do most of. In your case you will probably be doing a lot of running. If so you require a boat with a fairly full entry, & not too big a stern. Such boats run very well, & easily. Mine would self steer by a simple windvane even under spinnaker in moderate trades.


Modern racing boats with a fine entry & a big fat stern for fast running are just not suitable for short crew sailing. Of course they are no worse than those picturesque clipper bowed aft cabin, big stern things often considered great cruising boats.

If like me you are going to sail about the Pacific, as distinct from simply crossing it you are like to find yourself doing a lot of reaching & close reaching. Here you want something reasonably dry, so no slab sided bows either.

I often found the trades up around 30 Knots, so you want a rig which allows you to balance the boat easily under reduced gear. A well balanced hull is critical in being able to balance the boat in these conditions. Once you have these requirements, then choose your length.

Incidentally, I had a foredeck awning, with a drain fitting for a hose near the centre. This allowed me to keep my foreword hatch open for ventilation, & fill my water tanks simultaneously. I don't remember carrying water anywhere in the islands. In the doldrums I fitted a skirt to this, which caught the lightest winds, keeping the boat cool, even in the afternoon thunderstorms. Water maker not required.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

For every thing you think needs work you will unbury 2 more along the way to fixing it!

so true. when doing a project I always make it a priority to NOT discover something else to do. usually successful but many times not.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

Thank you for the thought, but that's not an option I would consider. I already have a 2Kw Honda generator, so I'm well aware of its fuel consumption, and the amount of gasoline I would need to run it for a couple of months is the deal breaker.



I will only carry enough gasoline for the kicker, which will likely be 4 x 5ga Gerry cans tied to the mid railings. If we take the tender ashore in some calm bay, we will be using the Armstrong outboards, and the kicker will stay on its mount.



I do not like carrying gasoline on a boat.

I don’t understand.
You don’t like to carry gasoline aboard.
Your going to carry 4, 5 gl jugs?
Just enough for the dinghy, but plan on rowing most of the time?

Now, I have not yet made it to the South Pacific, but just as a guess, I think they have gasoline there, and that 20 gls of gas aboard is plenty for a generator and a dinghy?

You have a Honda, take it. I bet once you get into the boonies if you don’t want it, you can likely sell it pretty easy, cause there will be several people thinking, I wish I had a generator.

A built in generator is excellent, however unless it’s in an engine room that has plenty of room to work around it, it can be a lot of trouble to maintain, where a Honda is very accessible and easy to do routine maintenance, and a breeze to replace.

[sailhand]

Buy ready to go. I'm sure most people would agree, sailing is much more fun than building. I've lived aboard 14 years and done a few builds/rebuilds. Never, just in case you missed that NEVER AGAIN!!!!! You always spend minimum of twice as much money and triple the time. You have a finite amount of years, enjoy them. I suggest you go to your local boatyard where the boats look like they haven't moved in years. Then go and ask the guys their what they think would be the best boat. Then ask them the really important question, how long have they been in the yard, how long did they originally think it would take and how much have they spent. I guarantee if you want to sail instead of build boats you'll buy ready to go.

[ShellBack89]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

One suggestion: Don't plan to buy the boat and immediately refit.

Go do some cruising first and see what you really miss. No it won't be a perfect analogy (cruising the S. Pacific) but it will give you an idea of what you will or will not miss. Make sure the boat is functional and safe but after that let your needs drive the upgrades.

We started out with a big list of upgrades but headed out before they were complete...almost half the list never got done because once we were out there, we decided they weren't needed (We did decide a generator was something we wanted and 3 months in picked one up).

I'm reading The Capable Cruiser and that's exactly what the author suggests.


The other issue that hasn't been brought up is cost for marinas and haul outs for the larger boats. I'm guessing you won't be spending too much time in marinas but they'll get you when you do your haul outs and on the hard. Plus as we all know the bigger the boat, the price of maintaining goes up exponentially.


As someone else stated, you should factor in the overall size of the boat and the crew you'll be working with. With a crew of 2 can the boat be handled safely with just one in the event the other is ill or what ever?

[Terra Nova]

Buying at the top of your budget leaves no room for the unexpected, which you should expect. Don't buy a project unless you want to put off sailing.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

In one of Steve Dashew's books, he suggests buying as long a waterline as your budget can afford. Do you agree with this statement?

That really requires quite a few qualifiers IMO. The first is your budget must consider not only purchase price, but costs of refitting, and costs of future maintenance. Your budget has to cover all those things and the refitting costs may easily exceed the initial purchase price depending on the condition of the boat. Then there is the question of what you intend to do with it and who will sail it. A single hander or a cruising boat for a middle aged couple (as examples) impose some specific capabilities and limitations which go beyond the "longer waterline the better" philosophy.

[Cpt Mark]

Personally I think the Dashews are full of **** in so many ways. I've read some of their books and delivered their ultimate cruiser for a retired couple the Deerfoot 68. Really? A 68' sailboat with hank on sails and less than desirable workmanship in the build? There's a long story there but the estimated delivery cost was $1300. 3 weeks later the bill was $13,000.

In the 70's the AVERAGE size cruising boat for a family of four was 27'. Family of 4! Think about that a bit. Bigger boat means more expense and not just in the buying process but the maintenance costs go up dramatically as well.

Waterline gets you speed, is that the most important thing for you? When I bought my 40' many years ago it was a full keel, mid 70's cruising boat. Mid 70's meant the fiberglass was ridiculously thick as they didn't know how to build back then. The boat I chose had already been through 2 hurricanes at sea and not on the outer edges of either of them. The boat was tough. Not going to get there fast but I knew I would get anywhere.

On average, people out cruising spend 90% of their time at anchor/marina. How fast do you need to go and why? Comfort for 90% of your time is pretty important in my book.

The most CRITICAL thing IMHO is this. Can the weakest (physical and skill level) person aboard handle the boat entirely on their own including docking, anchoring, sail changes in inclement conditions etc? Sure there may be 2 onboard but if someone has an issue and is out of the game the other person has to do it all. For that reason you set the boat up for single handing with everything done from the cockpit.

BTW, the monohull was sold years ago and now I have a Catamaran. That is the way to go for me.

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

I'm reading The Capable Cruiser and that's exactly what the author suggests.

And I too endorse that. But I'm also looking for a bit a project boat in the 52'er because of my skill set. Since some of the project is re-bedding the windows and redoing the stained teak, I plan on doing those immediately. Then we need the sails repaired, engine, genset, other systems checked over to see if they need anything. I also need to re-core the rudder. Once those are done, before we spend anything on upgrades, our plan is to take a few short sails.

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

The other issue that hasn't been brought up is cost for marinas and haul outs for the larger boats. I'm guessing you won't be spending too much time in marinas but they'll get you when you do your haul outs and on the hard. Plus as we all know the bigger the boat, the price of maintaining goes up exponentially.

Being an old General Contractor, I have addressed this every which way including Sundays. I know how much the rentals will be, which tools I already own, and all the materials I will need ...sans the mechanical stuff until I know more, but funds are being held to ensure the mandatory systems are working.

Originally Posted by ShellBack89

As someone else stated, you should factor in the overall size of the boat and the crew you'll be working with. With a crew of 2 can the boat be handled safely with just one in the event the other is ill or what ever?

Did that. I've mentioned that we used to own an IT40, which was 50' overall. About ¼ of the time we had her she sat in dry dock.

Boat handling is something I think about all the time, especially if one of us gets sick or injured. Thankfully, the latter will be handled by HF radio and a sat phone.

We intend to bring friends aboard to assist us with the longer passages. Then Wifey and I plan to do most of the gunkholing ourselves.

Ease of handling is the big reason I'm leaning toward the 52'er. It is a cutter with both headsails on furling gear, a triple reefed full batten mail that can be reefed from the cockpit, has 3 electric winches, a working main engine with lots of fuel, and a very heavy duty electric windlass with 400' of chain. To my thinking, (barring my brain missing something because I'm only on my first mug of morning brain plasma) those have my focus. All else is optional.

Other considerations I have are from my blue water experience. I want a centerline aft berth for when we are on the hook, and hot-bunking when underway. To do that, we need a pilot berth on either side complete with lee cloths. All 3 boats have those.

Wifey and I talked last night about some of the experience you people have shared with us. A few points became evident.

1. Rome was not built in a day, and whatever boat we decide on will likely be a work in process. If we don't have a working watermaker, we will find another way. After all, those who did this before us didn't have that option.

2. For the immediate future, our focus is about safely getting there to gain the experience of what all we need for the next time we go. Over the next few years, we should be able to gradually create the lifestyle we want, but for now, we just don't know what that is.

3. Being comfortable at sea is more important than having a boat with everything. Some of this has to do with the LWL, and some on the hull, keel and rigging design.

4. If I have the skills, have the time, and can save some money by buying a bit of a project boat, we are game. If a sale goes through next month, as I believe it will, and we plan to leave in mid September, I will have 6 months to do whatever I am able to do. This should be more than enough time to make whatever we buy seaworthy.

There may be a few others, but I need more morning brain plasma to get there.

[Eder]

After floating to the South Pacific here's what I wouldn't do without.


Refrigeration room for Hinanos and fresh tuna.

Lots of chain & scuba gear to keep chain. Spare main anchor. Lots of long snubbers.

Spares and maintenance stuff for everything. You can buy most stuff in Papeete though.
Complete extra self steering. Some type of emergency steering.
Sewing machine sail repair crap
Garmin InReach
Spare charging cables x2 for all phones , computers,gps etc.
Money...lots & lots.