posting to forums may invalidate your insurance

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

The job of the insurance company has never been to help us. It has always been to make money for the shareholders. You can expect them to adhere to the letter of the policy, no more. It is your responsibility to know what is covered and what is not.

Mercy or generosity are outside their purview.

Make your expectations reasonable, and do your homework. As in if someone collides with your docked vessel, get their name in writing while they are still shook up, and the name of their insurance company, and preferably the # of the policy, as well. And then, armed with that info, you can ask your ins. co. to tell you how to go after theirs. It may involve sitting in their office, and starting to raise your voice.

Ann

There are more fraudulant claims than, refusals to pay a bona-fide claim; insursrs work on the princile of uberrimae fides, the trouble is many of thei detractors do not.


So if the cap fits, wear it.

[celle2000]

Just because advice was asked on a forum does not mean a job was done based on that advice or done at all or done incorrectly.

[ozsailer]

Interesting question which raises a very valid point. Having an electrical background I do my own electrical work on not only my boat but also friends boats. Very rarely will I give advise on a forum regarding wiring etc as a general rule as normally I do not know the competence of the person who requests advise. Many people will say 12 volt wiring is easy - to a point it is but little problems can cause complex issues. Voltage drop, high resistance joints, poor power supply etc can cause massive headaches.

It does astound me the amount of posts on here regarding the electrical installation and "how to" regarding lithium batteries , solar panels and controllers and the amount of replies from people who clearly have no idea what they are talking about. I have spoken to my insurance company (topsail) at length regarding this and I can say they are most concerned over lithium and solar installations by unqualified people and if an issue arose they would look at it on a case by case basis. Maybe this question is can be answered way easy. How about this. Ring up your insurance company, explain what you need to do and get an answer prior to doing the work. Hmm maybe to easy for some, just common sense to me.

I can also state that having replaced and rewired several boats, if an issue arose as a result of faulty workmanship by an unqualified person, as an insurance company I would be looking at it closely as well. And yes if you post these type of questions and your opinion on websites an insurance company will make it part of their enquiries.

Ozsailer

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

That’s what insurance is for…..mistakes or mishaps.

You better check your policy. Not properly repairing, or purposefully installing incorrect or damaged parts by a non skilled technician is likely going to be a problem for you. Insurance inspectors have jobs for a reason.

[clakiep]

Any insurance which is mandatory isn't an insurance, it is a tax - colected by private companies. Insure liability and take care of your belongings yourself - unless...you own a large company, have lots of insurance for your business anyway, and can threat the insurer to take them away from him in case he refuses to pay for damage of your yacht, plane, or other goddies. It is a money and power game, not very much to do with contracts.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

You better check your policy. Not properly repairing, or purposefully installing incorrect or damaged parts by a non skilled technician is likely going to be a problem for you. Insurance inspectors have jobs for a reason.

See here's the thing. I have carefully read my policy. And the policy before that and the one before that going back years and multiple boats, power and sail. I have never seen a clause that invalidates my insurance for any repair made by me or anyone else for any reason. I have asked before on this forum for someone to share such language from an actual policy and come up with crickets. Everyone seems to be certain this language exists, but in my experience it's at least vanishingly rare. Anyone have actual policy language from a policy they can share that shows this?

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Insurance coverage is just a bet. The terms of the bet are set out in the "wordings" of the "policy", i.e. in the contract. Know those terms!

You bet that something 'orrible will happen to you. The insurer (the "underwriter") bets that nothing will happen to you. For all the fancy language, that is all there is to it!

An insurance "adjuster's" job, a duty he owes to his employer, is to deny any claim by any means he can. Slack-botted, merciful adjusters get the can!

TrentePieds

Correct in principle but a bit more complicated than stated. Insurance companies have armies of very well paid and very well trained actuaries to calculate the probability of winning and losing the bets that they place on their policy holders. Just like casinos, the actuaries tilt the tables and premiums in favour of the company. When the risk of losing the bet is too high, the company declines the opportunity to provide a policy.

So for example, in New Zealand, home owners automatically have earthquake insurance for dwellings and the land on which they sit, if they have a current private insurance policy for their home that includes fire insurance. The EQ insurance is provided by government because the risk of EQs is too high for private sector insurers to bet against them.

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Very rarely will I give advise on a forum regarding wiring etc as a general rule as normally I do not know the competence of the person who requests advise.

That's what warnings, caution statements and disclaimers are for, like "Not for use in actual navigation."

At the end of a post, you simply write something like "The preceding is not intended as advice for anyone under any circumstances ever."

Best to use an all-encompassing statement. Otherwise you could end up like the Italian motorcycle manufacturer Aprilia, who [at one time] actually included the following in the manual for their 250cc racing bike:

"Warning: Do not eat motorcycle parts."

[JPA Cate]

Ring up your insurance company, explain what you need to do and get an answer prior to doing the work.

I had to look up uberimae fides. What is written above in the quote is exactly how you demonstrate your side of the "utmost good faith" the principle requires.

And, when the insurance co. checks forums for your name, it is doing its side of it, as well. Being thorough IS acting in good faith, on both sides.

Ann

[Sam Woodbridge]

Hard for me to fathom big insurance companies or either small would venture into looking into forums Seapig.

Hard for me to believe you Seapig unless they offered the information up in detail trying to blame someone else. Please always be cautious about what people say. I doubt this one and what you have been told. Internet names and IP address’s uh. Lots of proof there!

Samatha Woodbridge - New Mexico

Sam Woodbridge - Wyoming

Samantha Woodbridge - Texas

[David B]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

See here's the thing. I have carefully read my policy. And the policy before that and the one before that going back years and multiple boats, power and sail. I have never seen a clause that invalidates my insurance for any repair made by me or anyone else for any reason. I have asked before on this forum for someone to share such language from an actual policy and come up with crickets. Everyone seems to be certain this language exists, but in my experience it's at least vanishingly rare. Anyone have actual policy language from a policy they can share that shows this?

No, but with all this discussion, I would not be surprised to see it in the future now.

[Island Time O25]

The whole concept of compulsory insurance, be it marine, auto, real property, health, etc. is to protect the wealthy from judgment proof defendants.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Seapig

A cautionary tale.

I have recently spoken with a cruiser who's insurance company tried to refuse payment because he had asked for electrical advice on a forum. They used this as proof that he had done minor electrical work himself and as he was not a qualified marine electrician, they contended that he had replaced a relay incorrectly and that had caused the fire and loss of his boat.
It took two years and lots of lawyers to get his money and even then he couldn't get insurance for five years.

I am skeptical of this story as described.


1) Replacing a relay "incorrectly" is ordinarily not something that leads to significant risk of fire.
2) Many if not most cruisers perform minor electrical work themselves; few are "qualified marine electricians"



I would imagine than there is much more to the story.


That said, insurance helps mitigate certain losses; the protection it provides is never absolute. Nowhere is this more true than with boats. It is my observation that unfair practices and outright fraud are rampant on he part of insurance companies and boat owners alike.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Negligence is not reason to deny payout unless the specific negligence is mentioned in the policy document. Negligence is one of the reasons we have comprehensive insurance after all.

I don’t know who you are insuring with , but I know several payouts that were made because of direct negligence by the insured

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-t...igence-2645771

If you don't try to help remedy the situation, although you could have (definition of intentional negligence), then secondary damages that resulted in, say, a flooded cabin sole or other damage due to the original failed part or accident may not be covered. Each type of negligent act does not need to be described in the policy per say. The insurance company can pay for the part which failed for instance, but not the secondary damage the failed part caused (which can be more expensive to repair).

[boatpoker]

For a surveyor, doing in isurance investigations is a gravy train if you can get them keep your number on speed dial. I started refusing such work years ago out of sheer disgust.

About 80% of the claims I investigated were either outright fraud or grossly over inflated and in the vast majority of cases the underwriter paid out no matter what evidence I collected.

example ... 14yr old express cruiser with two blown engines, claim $35k. Claimant said each engine picked up a plastic bag at the same time I pulled both impellers and proved by part numbers that they were original. I reported that the gauges were functional would have shown overheating and an alarm (also functional would have sounded). The underwriter dragged his feet a little and the claimant got a lawyer to send a letter. Keep in mind that most policies require the claimant to mitigate damages.

Result - Claim paid ! They were not afraid of the lawyer it just would have cost them a lot more than that to bring in their own 200 partner law firm to fight it.

We all pay for shady claims.