POLL - Florida Anchoring Limits

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Thanks for that answer with the derelict vessel removal examples too.

Only thing is cars aren't dragged off to landfills. They are recycled/scrapped.

RVs seem to be the closest fit to boats. At end of life, they go... Where?

Granted, there are more complexities with boats, but the cars and RVs don't seem to be left around like people do with boats. They seem to somehow end up in the proper channels to be disposed of like in the video.

I'm wondering why we don't have those channels (and whatever financial incentives cause car/RV owners to get their old car into those channels) for end of life boats


https://youtu.be/co4mXUWIl6c?si=_AdwG7fOu1l80izd

Even RVs get cut up for scrap more like a car than a boat. The fiberglass shell and such may get cut up like a boat, but it's generally far lighter and less material to deal with and may be easier to disassemble (vs having to cut it all apart). And there's still the metal frame, drivetrain (if it's not a trailer), etc. to scrap / recycle. So you can likely at least find somewhere to take it for free, if not pay a bit vs having to pay to dispose of a boat in most cases.

[NorthCoastJoe]

Maybe the cost effective way in Florida might be a barge for the cut up hulls and a second one for recycle materials and a boat with worker quarters so there are no land based costs. Do it all from the water.

A landing ship could be used as a dry dock to cut up the boats. Open the ramp and drag the boats in. I would think one could be modified to do such work. No crane just a winch to drag them in.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by NorthCoastJoe

Maybe the cost effective way in Florida might be a barge for the cut up hulls and a second one for recycle materials and a boat with worker quarters so there are no land based costs. Do it all from the water.

A landing ship could be used as a dry dock to cut up the boats. Open the ramp and drag the boats in. I would think one could be modified to do such work. No crane just a winch to drag them in.

That's pretty close to how they do it in my stretch of the ICW. Every couple years, the various municipalities but out a bid and remove a dozen or two of boats. Usually costs around $20k per boat by the time it's done. It takes quite a while to run the gauntlet of requirements to declare a boat abandoned - a year or so.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Thats curious as Canadians are only allowed to stay in the US for six months.

but their boats can stay forever

[mvweebles]

Poll is now closed. Same poll was posted on TrawlerForum. Interesting, although CF is 4x the size of TF, number of respondants on TF was 3x greater than CF. The percentage of TF respondants supporting a time limit was significantly higher (84% TF answered "Yes" compared to 63% CF). I can only speculate based on the reason for this. Could be CF'ers are just more anti-regulation; could be TF'ers are older and more conservative; could be CF has a lot of people living on stationary boats and flooded the survey responses; could be CF is more global and TF has more snowbird/Florida-aware boaters who are familiar with the anchor-out concerns.

Makes no difference - the attached will be forwarded to BoatUS and Florida State Legislation. Thanks to all who responded.

[jcapo]

I guess the problem that they want to solve is the derelict vessel problem. There are laws on the books that should address that problem but they are not enforced. More laws will not solve it either.


I'm a Florida native from St. Augustine and full time cruiser.

[Nicholson58]

Anchoring should be allowed during cruising season. Hurricane seaso, get out!

This totally permits cruising transients and promotes yachting while protecting the local infrastructure against permanent anchoring and abandoned and sunk boats.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by jcapo

I guess the problem that they want to solve is the derelict vessel problem. There are laws on the books that should address that problem but they are not enforced. More laws will not solve it either.


I'm a Florida native from St. Augustine and full time cruiser.

In my mind it's not so much about how many laws, new laws, old laws, etc. It's more about whether the laws are both effective and enforceable without causing too many other problems. If the old ones aren't doing the job, then they should be either updated or replaced (assuming it's not just that nobody is bothering to enforce them).

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

but their boats can stay forever

Not so. Canadian vessels (and all foreign vessels) are allowed to stay in the US for one year and get a CBP Cruising License upon entry to the US which states that very clearly. US Cruising License & Permit to Proceed

[thinwater]

In Annapolis, Maryland you have to provide proof of a pump-out every 5 days (mobile service is permitted and encouraged). They enforce it. Yes, it is a NDZ, so treatment is not a way around, but the people we are talking about will not have functional treatment units.



Just enforce the sanitation rule and I think you will reduce the problem to a manageable level.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jcapo

I guess the problem that they want to solve is the derelict vessel problem. There are laws on the books that should address that problem but they are not enforced. More laws will not solve it either.


I'm a Florida native from St. Augustine and full time cruiser.

Derelict vessels are a separate item with some relatively minor crossover from abandoned liveaboard boats that become derelict. Yes, there are laws and processes to deal abandoned boats but it's expensive and time consuming to go through all the steps to declare a boat abandoned.

As to the anchor-outs, there are laws but there's a loophole - the boat has to fit the definition of a liveaboard. All the owner has to say to skirt the rule is declare they don't liveaboard - they have a shoreside residence somewhere/anywhere. Disproving that is possible, but would require a lengthy investigation and hardly practical. As mentioned, in my neck of the ICW (25-mile stretch of very busy waterway between Clearwater Beach and Pass-a-Grille), Pinellas County Marine Sheriff's said that after 4-years of trying, they had exactly zero prosecutions.

You may not agree with efforts to eliminate permanent liveaboard/anchor-outs, but to say there are already laws to prevent it and "we don't need more laws" is 100% wrong.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Not so. Canadian vessels (and all foreign vessels) are allowed to stay in the US for one year and get a CBP Cruising License upon entry to the US which states that very clearly. US Cruising License & Permit to Proceed

All I can tell you is a few months ago there was a thread started by an anchor-out who was trying to rally cruisers to support their cause. Thread got a bit vitriolic - the main proponant in the background - a Canadian citizen and self-proclaimed cruiser/liveaboard for decades - has a personal vendeta against some of the Florida elected officials becuase of their efforts to remove anchor-outs.

I generally find Canadians some of the nicest and respectful people on the planet. This particular gentleman was an extreme exception. Yea, I know......he's been in the US too long

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In Annapolis, Maryland you have to provide proof of a pump-out every 5 days (mobile service is permitted and encouraged). They enforce it. Yes, it is a NDZ, so treatment is not a way around, but the people we are talking about will not have functional treatment units.



Just enforce the sanitation rule and I think you will reduce the problem to a manageable level.

Every 5 days seems like an onerous rule unless pumpouts are available for free in the area. Being that we're used to paying for pumpouts, in my mind I'd be kinda annoyed about having to get the tank pumped every 5 days when it takes 10 - 12 days to fill it with 2 of us on board (we have a fairly large tank). Realistically we wouldn't be sitting in one place for more than 5 days unless we're at a dock, so fuel to move the boat to a pumpout isn't a concern (we'd just stop by one when we're already going to be moving). But it's still an extra cost and annoyance.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Chotu

i vote for a season. 6 months max.

Some people might want to visit somewhere for a while then move on

This is totally not me. In hundreds of anchorages, not sure I've ever spent 4 days at anchor. HOWEVER, I agree 100% with this. If somehow I wanted to go spend a winter in Marathon(*), I would want to spend more than 45 days. And I'd like to think that I wouldn't be the target population. My boat would come in under its own power (I use an engine, but if I were engineless like Sean, I'd be equally able to come in under sail, as I often choose to do) and my holding tank is fully functional.



In part due to the popularity of Marathon as a cruising destination, and in part because 30% of the harbor is permanently closed to transients (by permanently moored residents), it is hard to actually go there. I think EVERYONE should have a chance to anchor there, not just those who were there first. Move along, you are welcome to come back in a bit, and have the same chance of finding a spot as everyone else.



(*) My parents lived for 20 years harbor front in Marathon. I got to see the derelict boats, sometimes a single "residence" could be 2-3 boats tied together with 2-3 half floating dingys, that probably haven't moved in years and probably couldn't motor, sail, or row out to the Seven Mile Bridge and back (when the upper half of the broken mast is tied alongside the lower shrouds, it's kind of hard to set a sail....). When my parents sold the house, they offered it to me. Couldn't imagine spending 6 DAYS per year, let alone 6 MONTHS. But that's me.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Not so. Canadian vessels (and all foreign vessels) are allowed to stay in the US for one year and get a CBP Cruising License upon entry to the US which states that very clearly. US Cruising License & Permit to Proceed

all they have to do, and are required to do, is register the boat in Florida.