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Old 18-03-2023, 18:45   #16
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The point of seeing an old survey is not necessarily to tell you the current state of the boat. Rather, it will give the prospective buyer a window into how well the boat has been maintained (or not) over time. You can get a sense of the rate of deterioration of systems or areas of the boat.

It has to be matched and compared to a current survey (by the buyer and/or a professional). But I definitely view it as useful information.

If a seller has one, but won’t provide it at no cost, then I would walk away. The only conclusion I can make is there’s something being hidden.
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Old 19-03-2023, 03:51   #17
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

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While looking for a cruising sailboat in Florida I looked at one thru a broker in the 200k range. The PO had purchased it 8 months earlier. I asked if there was a recent survey. He said there was and the owner would provide a copy for $300 cash ! Walked. Comments.
Assuming you had advanced past tire-kicker status, entirely reasonable request on your part. Seller like this will be a PITA through the entire transaction. They view negotiations as zero-sum. For them to win, you must lose.
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Old 19-03-2023, 05:04   #18
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

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Assuming you had advanced past tire-kicker status, entirely reasonable request on your part. Seller like this will be a PITA through the entire transaction. They view negotiations as zero-sum. For them to win, you must lose.
The seller is more interested in making $300 than $200K. If survey is unfavorable, he wouldn't disclose it at all. If favorable, he should be eager to turn it over to encourage sale. Charging you money for considering the purchase is illogical. I am surprised broker puts up with this.
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Old 19-03-2023, 05:31   #19
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

I wouldn't pay 50 cents for an old survey unless I was very familiar with the surveyor and satisfied that he was thorough and competent.

Take a look at my collection of pathetic surveys and think what you would pay for them ... Sample, Example Marine Survey Report
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Old 19-03-2023, 05:52   #20
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

"It is the brokers' fault.

The answer to the original question should have been: "Yes, there is a recent survey"

The answer to the subsequent one should have been: "No you can't see it, pay for your own"



Why?

I can't see a benefit to any side of the transaction to withhold a previous survey unless there is something in it that the seller doesn't want to disclose.

I can see a lot of benefit to share a previous survey, especially if it secures a sale at or near the asking price because the buyer feels they have been treated fairly and honestly.





However, if you as the buyer really want this boat then I wouldn't walk away just because of this. Why deprive yourself of a good boat just because you don't like the seller?

If I was seriously interested in the boat I would do my own very comprehensive survey and then, with that info in hand, decide whether I wanted to proceed with the purchase. If I needed to get my own survey to satisfy insurance (or me if I wasn't confident of my abilities) then so be it, or, if the old survey would satisfy insurance (or me), I would pony up the $300 as it would likely be far less than a new survey. If it showed a serious deficiency that I had missed then that is useful info towards my decision to purchase or walk. All I've spent is $300 and some of my time so far.

And throughout this entire process I wouldn't feel one ounce of guilt or pressure from the broker or seller to speed up my decision, or add one tiny penny to my offer price (should I choose to make one), because they had both already set the tone for the transaction with their initial approach.
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Old 19-03-2023, 07:12   #21
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

Fwiw, for boats I am looking to purchase, there is no way I am “renting” a look at an old survey, that’s just throwing money away, if the owner is that sort of person I very likely am not buying that boat, lots of quality used boats for sale out there, where this sort of tomfoolery is not part of the process.

I would be getting a current survey done on any boat I was moving to purchase with the traditional outs, if something substantive is found that causes me pause as it were.

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Old 19-03-2023, 08:16   #22
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

that's ridiculous. an old survey is useful but .. certainly not worth 300 dollars. it does say something about the seller.
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Old 19-03-2023, 08:28   #23
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

Withholding, or even charging for access to an existing survey, only send negative messages. Either it’s about the state of the boat, or the state of the seller. Either way, it’s not good.

A boat is usually a major purchase, regardless of the price. If a seller is not willing to provide as much information as possible to a serious potential buyer, then I as that buyer would move on. But the ‘serious potential buyer’ proviso is the one possibility where I can see putting a price tag on the survey might make sense.

Sellers get a lot of tire-kickers. When I sold my last boat I quickly developed a sense of who was serious, and who was just wasting my time (or to be generous, too early in their own learning curve).

I offered a previous survey of my boat to every serious potential buyer. I stated it up front on my sale website. This worked for me.
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Old 19-03-2023, 09:00   #24
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

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that's ridiculous. an old survey is useful but .. certainly not worth 300 dollars. it does say something about the seller.
Yes-to me it says he is a "chiseler". Why buy anything from a Chiseler you do not have to? ...and in this case there happen to be 2 other boats of same model in same state.
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Old 19-03-2023, 09:09   #25
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

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Originally Posted by geoleo View Post
While looking for a cruising sailboat in Florida I looked at one thru a broker in the 200k range. The PO had purchased it 8 months earlier. I asked if there was a recent survey. He said there was and the owner would provide a copy for $300 cash ! Walked. Comments.
Seller paid for it and it was theirs. You wanted it because it was less than paying for a new one etc..

From a seller viewpoint if you weren't willing to pay $300 for it you weren't serious to buy a $200k boat.

When I got my first boat there was a seller survey and I got a copy about I made an accepted offer. I still could reject etc based on survey.
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Old 19-03-2023, 10:34   #26
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

If I were selling a boat, I would provide any survey(s) I had free of charge. My boat is well maintained, and the survey would provide a "snapshot in time" for a potential buyer. Trying to make $300 on an old survey, which may send negative signals to a potential buyer, and cause him/her to walk it pretty self defeating IHMO . . .
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Old 19-03-2023, 10:40   #27
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

A normal buyer & broker would either hide an old survey if it shows some problems, or hand it over to any serious buyer.


But I'll add my own perspective to this:
My guess is you have already communicated -directly or indirectly- your own idea what the boat is worth and the broker decided to treat you like a tire kicker.



Why I think so? Well, I have been in the seller's shoes.


About ten years ago I listed a nice Lagoon 410 and within a day I was contacted by... geoleo

In your first message you told me my boat wasn't worth anywhere near my asking price. Your only question was if the seacocks were original because all Lagoons had bad quality seacocks (a thread you started on CF a few weeks earlier).

I gave you a quick positive reply just to be nice, knowing it would not lead anywhere.

In repsonse I received a monologue over several mails telling me that the seacocks would soon sink my boat. That all Lagoons are shitty quality. That you would consider my boat for 110k USD.

A ridiculous offending offer for a Lagoon 410 I had just listed the day before asking 190k USD. I signed a contract with the final buyer just two weeks later at full asking. The buyer's survey was flawless and stated a fair market value of 240k.


I should have offered you my old survey for $300 instead.
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Old 19-03-2023, 10:52   #28
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

Totally irrelevant to OPs question, but when I bought my current boat, the seller provided the survey from when they purchased the boat, 28 years prior. Of course there was really no value to it, but it was an interesting historical read.


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Old 19-03-2023, 12:31   #29
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
A normal buyer & broker would either hide an old survey if it shows some problems, or hand it over to any serious buyer.


But I'll add my own perspective to this:
My guess is you have already communicated -directly or indirectly- your own idea what the boat is worth and the broker decided to treat you like a tire kicker.



Why I think so? Well, I have been in the seller's shoes.


About ten years ago I listed a nice Lagoon 410 and within a day I was contacted by... geoleo

In your first message you told me my boat wasn't worth anywhere near my asking price. Your only question was if the seacocks were original because all Lagoons had bad quality seacocks (a thread you started on CF a few weeks earlier).

I gave you a quick positive reply just to be nice, knowing it would not lead anywhere.

In repsonse I received a monologue over several mails telling me that the seacocks would soon sink my boat. That all Lagoons are shitty quality. That you would consider my boat for 110k USD.

A ridiculous offending offer for a Lagoon 410 I had just listed the day before asking 190k USD. I signed a contract with the final buyer just two weeks later at full asking. The buyer's survey was flawless and stated a fair market value of 240k.


I should have offered you my old survey for $300 instead.
Illuminating!

Interesting that often enough in these posts we get more information as time goes on, and the picture fills out in unexpected ways.
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Old 19-03-2023, 13:22   #30
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Re: Pay Seller extra for old Survey??

I am thinking of selling my sailboat in a few months and going to the "dark" side. I am planning to get a presale survey and price based on it as a "where is, how is". I will provide it "free" to people I feel are real buyers. Which are probably those willing to sign a purchase agreement and make a deposit before I provide it as they already looked at the boat and are now just looking for reassurance.

I guess if someone looked at the boat first and then asked for the survey before making an offer I might offer to sell it to them and deduct the cost off the price if they proceed.
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