Pay $50 to see a boat??!

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

So would you pay a fee to view a home for sale, a new/used car purchase?

I have never had a person selling a house or car NOT return my sincere inquiries for more info. So there is no need to pay in those situations.

I HAVE had many situations recently where a boat broker ignored my sincere inquiry into a boat for sale.

So these 2 sales situations are not at all comparable

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Should we extend this to houses?

No, because with every house I have purchased (three) the brokers promptly and courteously returned my inquiry. Simply no need to pay if everyone works with the system.

Boat brokers, on the other hand…..

[SailingInfidels]

Yeah that's not going to work. Can you say "conflict of interest"? All the brokers would be pointing out defects so they can maximize the number of times they show the boat. The desire to make a sale and collect some money would be gone.

If brokers aren't happy about having to get off their asses and show their listings, the sellers have a big problem. The prospective buyers are not the ones to solve it.


Besides that, it's a slippery slope for all sales professions.

[Kujoe]

Go to boat shows such as Annapolis to see various boats and dial in on what your real wants and needs are. First you can see 50 boats over a few days and really talk with people. Second you will have agents willing to talk, guaranteed. If you are buying used, find a good surveyor to work with.

We represent Max Cruise Marine and will always return a call or an email. joe@maxcruisemarine.com
I also run a boat dealership which we call back constantly but often never get a response back from the requestor of information. Lots of people answer ads and either put in inaccurate information or only answer known numbers or emails so they don't answer. It is problematic as the agent as well.
Good luck in your search.

[hukilaumike]

I've read similar threads about brokers and boat sales for years; my experiences with both are clearly not the standard.

When I was looking for my first big boy boat about 25 years ago, I zeroed in on a couple of different models, both small, inexpensive boats (Catalina 22 and Oday 23). Not knowing any better, I went to two brokers. The first took an hour with me and went over his book of potential boats, as well as taking me out to a storage area where we saw a few boats. Mind you, none of these boats were listed at over $6000. The next broker was even more solicitous: he had an Oday 23 in the boat yard next to his office (it was a very early model with horrendously orange cushions) which I didn't want. But he had taken the time to print out some Oday catalogue info and a Practical Sailor boat review of the boat for me. He also was delighted to show my kids (then about 6 and 3) a big Island Packet they had on the hard, just for kicks. At the time, I didn't know how unusual this behavior is for a broker and cheap small boats. Every time I read threads like this, I am reminded of how good a broker can be.

I was fine with my Oday for years, but always had an eye out for a Catalina 28; I had seen it at a boat show back in the '90s, and had been so struck by the boat that I kept the sales brochure and would occasionally look at it and dream. Every now and then I would look at any C28's available; but they were invariably hundreds if not thousands of miles away, as well as being priced way above what I would be willing to pay, so I was never tempted to go see them. One day I saw a C28 available not a half hour's drive away and well within my price range. The photos showed a boat in very good condition. However, now armed with a cynicism gained from reading threads like this, I thought it was clearly too good to be true. But, seeing as it was so close by, I figured I had little to lose. Turns out that the pictures were accurate and the low price was due to the fact that the boat was older. But the deck was solid, the sails in decent condition and the engine had low hours. And the owner was a nice guy who was a pleasure to deal with. Two weeks later, the boat was mine.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Then how do I get brokers to return my inquiries? What incentive, other than a bit of money, would get them to take me seriously?

A. Go over there head to the “boss”. Owner, sales manager. Etc.
Be firm. Explain the situation. And, almost all brokers belong to associations. Contact and complain to them. YBBA or IYBA.

B. Get a “buyers broker.” They will work for you directly and can punch through the mud. Yes, then brokers have to share the commission. They are on your side and WILL be available. I have done this sucessfully.

C. Brokers repeatedly not returning inquiry’s need to find a new career. Put you foot down. Yell, complain. Don’t just send a text or email or two. Call and call again and leave stronger messages. Report them. Dis them on media. Or on there web site. YELL. Damn it, I have money to spend on a yacht and the broker is NOT returning my inquiries!

[Montanan]

Well one could turn the tables and charge the broker $50 for you to go see their boat, then seeing 20 boats would at least pay for one's gas and lunch money to make the trips.

Just a proposal.

[Jimmyb57]

Over the past 3 weeks, I've flown to see 3 different boats. Even after all the expense of flying and the time it took, I haven't even received a follow up email or text from any of the brokers. I would think the $750 airfare would have been sufficient to prove I was serious. Guess not.

[Seasun1994]

Originally Posted by Jammer

See the thing is that the market is full of $30,000 sailboats that brokers don't particularly want to show because they don't sell well and individual broker's share of the 10% commission (usually the company keeps half to cover advertising and back-end expenses) isn't worth it. No buyers broker or consultant wants to work in that price range, either.

If you have $200,000 cash and want to spend it on a sailboat, you'll find that plenty of people will return your calls and show you boats. In between is in between.

That hasn't been my experience. I have reached out to 6 listings on Yatchworld (or boats.com) in the past week only to find out they are all either sold or under contract. NONE of them were listed as "Pending" and I have since found out that at least 2 of them were sold MONTHS ago. ALL of the jokers, er sorry, Brokers were slow to get back to me and dismissive.

I personally think the whole setup is broken. I will be both buying and selling a boat in the next year and would prefer to not involved a broker. I just don't see the value in it ($25K+ to unlock a boat?), and am really put off by the collusive structure of the industry. All the main sites (YW, Boats.com, boattrader, clickandboat) are all now under Boatgroup and can only be accesses by brokers or dealers, creating an artificial barrier to the owner seller.

I have both time and experience (including finance and escrow) to represent myself, but the industry has intentionally locked me out. Makes me wonder that if it was bigger the Department of Justice would be all over it for collusion.

Anyone out there with similar experiences and advice on how to not waste money on brokers, but still be able to buy and sell?

[Seasun1994]

Originally Posted by Jimmyb57

Over the past 3 weeks, I've flown to see 3 different boats. Even after all the expense of flying and the time it took, I haven't even received a follow up email or text from any of the brokers. I would think the $750 airfare would have been sufficient to prove I was serious. Guess not.

Pretty pathetic. Do these guys/gals all have other jobs? How can they be so ineffective? I guess if they sell 3 boats a year they make enough?

They are worth 2% tops. The rest can be completely handled online and automation.

[Seasun1994]

Originally Posted by Seasun1994

That hasn't been my experience. I have reached out to 6 listings on Yatchworld (or boats.com) in the past week only to find out they are all either sold or under contract. NONE of them were listed as "Pending" and I have since found out that at least 2 of them were sold MONTHS ago. ALL of the jokers, er sorry, Brokers were slow to get back to me and dismissive.

I personally think the whole setup is broken. I will be both buying and selling a boat in the next year and would prefer to not involved a broker. I just don't see the value in it ($25K+ to unlock a boat?), and am really put off by the collusive structure of the industry. All the main sites (YW, Boats.com, boattrader, clickandboat) are all now under Boatgroup and can only be accesses by brokers or dealers, creating an artificial barrier to the owner seller.

I have both time and experience (including finance and escrow) to represent myself, but the industry has intentionally locked me out. Makes me wonder that if it was bigger the Department of Justice would be all over it for collusion.

Anyone out there with similar experiences and advice on how to not waste money on brokers, but still be able to buy and sell?

Turns out I'm not the only one that thinks this is an anti-trust issue. Sorry if this is old news, I am just catching up as I get deeper into it.

"Yacht sales agents hit with US class action over commission fees"
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litiga...20yacht%20sale.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Seasun1994

Turns out I'm not the only one that thinks this is an anti-trust issue. Sorry if this is old news, I am just catching up as I get deeper into it.

"Yacht sales agents hit with US class action over commission fees"
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litiga...20yacht%20sale.

Interesting. A similar action broke the absolute control that real estate brokers held over the MLS system. Personally, I think the main reason boaters list with brokers is to gain access to Yacht World. This is especially true for lower-end boats. Everyone knows brokers generally do little for these cheaper boats, but the only way to get on YW is to use a broker. And sadly this is single most-used tool by buyers.

I’ve long called on YW to be opened to private sellers — for a reasonable fee, of course. It’s clearly possible to do so. It might even be a good revenue stream for YW. But it would result in far fewer broker listings, and since brokers control YW, it has never happened.

[JPA Cate]

@massnspace:

I think one needs to go meet them before one gets to expect them to answer phone calls. Try to filter out the ones who blow smoke, by asking them questions you already know the answers to. If they answer wrong out of ignorance or trying to pull the wool over your eyes, move on and meet another. Trust your gut to let you know when you don't have someone you want to work with. They're not all as obvious as the guy who threw us out of his office out of either misinformation or laziness.

Ann

[Seasun1994]

It will be interesting to see how that class action suit proceeds. It's clear the industry is ripe for change. I find it hard to believe with so many DIYers that boat that it has gone on with as so much of a closed club for brokers. But I guess marketing a boat and contacting for escrow seem like different skills to refinishing teak.

In reality these days with all the web tools and online services, it is much much easier.