Pay $50 to see a boat??!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by massnspace

Yes, paying them just a bit extra to return my inquiries and take me seriously. I would be all in on this…

Why would $50 entice them to do the job that they agreed to do?

Originally Posted by massnspace

And you cannot contact the seller themselves…..that’s the whole idea of a broker, it is a kind of “wall” between the portential buyer and seller…

It’s usually not hard to find the actual owner. Takes a little sleuthing is all.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Another idea is to spend a bit more and hire Bob Perry - yes, that Bob Perry - for $750 to consult on the whole thing. He could also recommend a good buyers broker. I did this years ago (not on a Perry design). It was fantastic. And everyone who knows sailboats returns Bob Perry's calls.

Robert H. Perry Yacht Designers - Consultation Service

THIS is a great idea, and approach. For low to medium-end boat deals a buyer’s broker is going to be a disincentive from the seller’s broker end. There’s just not much money in it for them, and now they have to split it. I think this is why we often see these kinds of stories; brokers take on boats that really isn’t paying them enough to do their job — so they don’t. I really wish brokers would simply refuse to take on these boats.

But coming in with a buyer’s consultant makes it all clear.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I would also argue that putting just a bit of coin behind the whole thing would make the brokers more honest.

If you PAY to go see a boat that a broker has misrepresented, then they will get hostile reactions from the person who just wasted the money….forcing them to rethink their misleading ad tactics in the future…

^^^^^

Dear me, no! We have had the experience of Borrowing a friend's car and driving roughly 500 mi (fuel ~$4/ gal) from Brisbane to Sydney to look at one boat, and return. The journey required overnight lodging. Jim had told the broker he wanted to have a test sail that day, if we decided we were interested, and she had agreed over the phone.

The broker took us out to see the boat on its mooring, and when we went below, the engine was in pieces on the cabin sole, not available for a test sail. As it happened, she wasted our precious time AND hers. In addition, the boat was not as represented at all: was not in like new condition, had a big soft spot in the deck, and a broken bulkhead forward.

So we were annoyed about our time and costs and her lack of knowledge, and later on in our search for our present boat refused to look at another boat because she was representing it. She had shown us we could not trust her for honest communication. Brokers may lose track of how their reputation is doing, and I think she, the privileged daughter of a wealthy Sydney sailing family, had no idea how seriously she had inconvenienced us.

We'll never know, of course, but I think a mere $50 ahead of a purchase would not have moved her to better behavior. Standard fee here is 10%, and we were planning on an expenditure of around $200k--a not unsubstantial sum for her had the sale been completed at that rate.

************

What I think would help you, would be for you to go to a brokerage or 4, and pick one to work with; create a relationship with the broker of your choice, and then encourage him to find what you want.

At the time we were looking, we printed up a description of what we wanted, and what we didn't want. Of all the brokers we talked to, one threw us out saying it was impossible (no Volvo engines, no saildrives), and one understood the concept and we worked with him and have made referrals to him.

IMO, if you know what you want, it is easy to give the broker something to work with that will save him and you some time in the long run. But you have to go in open, and honest, too.

Ann

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

brokers take on boats that really isn’t paying them enough to do their job — so they don’t. I really wish brokers would simply refuse to take on these boats.

In most cases the dynamic at work is that a brokerage with several employees will take on these boats, often from prior customers, and the boss will determine whose misfortune it will be to be assigned.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jammer

In most cases the dynamic at work is that a brokerage with several employees will take on these boats, often from prior customers, and the boss will determine whose misfortune it will be to be assigned.

So, these staff brokers are forced to take on these low-end boats? Seems like a pretty sucky relationship if the brokerage firm can force commissioned sales people to take on boats that they can’t afford to service properly.

I’d sure hate to be one of these brokers.

[JPA Cate]

We were social friends with a guy who became a broker after his divorce. They had a lot of assigned "loser" boats there. How he handled the situation was to listen to the customer's stated wants and take them to see what he had that fitted them. It took him less than a year to have become the broker who sold the most boats at that brokerage.

Before we knew better, we got shown a lot of bait and switches, and especially boats 50% pricier than what we had to work with. The "buyer" can simply refuse to see the too expensive boat the broker told you the price was "negotiable"--whatever on earth that is supposed to mean. If you want to buy a boat at or below a price line, then don't go get looks at more expensive ones, unless you have more money than your price line. It may be cynical of me, but you can't really blame them for trying to get a bigger fee. But you don't have to cooperate and waste their time and yours, either.

Ann

[NorthCoastJoe]

If you are looking for a boat I would say Craigslist or Latitude 38 classified.
Deal with the owner. The owner knows the history of the boat.

[PJS]

Being a Broker is a sales position. Being such, it requires a skill set and finesse of qualifying potential buyers. If they can't/don't want to invest in applying a process for qualifying then I am unwilling to accept paying to see a product, they, the broker, will benefit from the sale. I have no sympathy if a selling agent can't determine a tire kicker from a legitimate buyer.
Another view point is if products were portrayed with integrity as it really exists, I believe, there would be fewer, dry runs or fly buys. There are many listed boats with 4 photos and no hours listed. Why? We all know why....
Just an opinion....

[LordoftheReach]

No problem; I'll pay the broker $50 for showing me around a boat and the boat's owner can pay me $100 for wasting my time when the description doesn't match actuality.

[AA3JY]

Originally Posted by massnspace

It seems to me something is broken in the yacht broker/potential buyer relationship.

I have been (trying) to contact brokers to ask questions and possibly see different sailboats I am interested in BUYING.

But I have had similar responses to others I have read about on this forum. No call back, no return email, etc. etc. And the ones who I was able to contact seemed a bit antagonistic. Not all, but quite a few….

My proposal: Yacht brokers should charge a small fee to look at a boat. Let’s say $50. Fee would be applied to the final purchase price, if one buys the boat. Maybe also like $10 to recieve a return phone call with the promise of having time to ask and get answered your important questions.

As a buyer, I would happily pay this. It would be a very, very small percentage of the final amount I will be paying for the privilege to own a new (used) boat (even if I looked at multiple boats).

As a broker, this would tend to weed out all the lookers, which I understand from reading threads here is the number one reason brokers won’t return inquiries.

A win-win, I would argue.

Any ideas?

David
Seattle

Not much different than attending a boat show, ie., Annapolis Boat Show

[Mike OReilly]

I agree, there does seem to be something “broken” about some of the broker-buyer relationships out there. Not all. Not even the majority. But clearly enough that it comes up as a constant irritant here on CF.

The problem seems to occur largely in the lower to medium-range of used boat sales. The simple fact is that at this level, the potential income for the individual broker is small. Ten percent of doesn’t go very far, especially if the broker works with a brokerage firm, who takes a chunk. And if a buyer’s broker shows up, the math becomes even worse.

Brokers are business people. They are trying to make a decent income from the work they do. so they have to allocate the appropriate resources to each potential sale based. It can take as much time — or even more — to sell a low-end boat as it does to manage a higher-end one. So it’s no wonder brokers limit the resources they expend on these lower-end sales. Paying these folks a small tip for doing their job is does not change the equation much. Perhaps if it was $500 it might make a difference, but $50 is barely beer money.

The real problem is that brokers (or brokerage firms) accept boats they know they cannot properly service. If a broker won’t, or can’t, fully service a sale, then they should refuse to accept the contract. Doing so does a disservice to potential buyers, but also to sellers. And it helps foster a view that all brokers are bad, useless, and lazy — something which I do not believe.

[BlueH2Obound]

We looked at about 7 boats prior to buying. Several were FSBO. The rest were offered by brokers. All required significant travel on our part, as we were looking for a blue water boat, and we lived inland at the time.
We asked a LOT of questions, and requested additional info. The boats we were considering were in the $200k range.

We even looked at one boat, FSBO, where we spoke to the owners, were up front that we weren't in the position to buy AT THAT MOMENT, because we were selling a house, after which we would be in a position to buy cash. We asked if they would be interested in showing their boat under those circumstances. It would involve several days travel and hotel accommodations on our part, but they graciously agreed. We loved the sellers, loved the boat, and would have bought on the spot if we had had the $$ then. Months later, when we DID have the $$, it had already sold unfortunately.

Our current boat, we flew from Kentucky to Washington State, USA to see/survey/sea trial. Significant expenses involved. If we had incurred those expenses, and the boat had been significantly different than represented, we would have been royally pissed!

Now a little more information. We had the same issue with brokers not returning calls, boats where a close review of advertised pics, where same scene in the listing showed different color schemes, or obvious differences, meaning that the pics represented different eras in the boat's life. Many of the pics were from previous listings, when the current boat owner original purchased the boat, often pics years, or even decades earlier. I want to know the condition/appearance of the boat NOW, not what it looked like 15 years previously, back when it was being well taken care of, although that info would be of interest at a later stage in the process.

To your original question, requiring a perspective buyer to pay a fee (amount to be determined) to look at the boat. Yes, provided, if, as stated previously, the broker also agrees to pay a fee if he has not been, shall we say, up front in his listing, and or answers to your questions. Example, another boat we were interested in, broker says "1,200 gallons of fuel available in four fuel tanks, two saddle tanks (450 g each) in ER, and two smaller tanks (150 g each) in the lazarette, giving you a XXX range. All tanks are in perfect condition.

We tried to make an offer on the boat, at about 12% below asking price, with earnest money check (10%). Something sounded off, and we didn't want to travel to Texas unless we had an accepted offer. Broker refused, stating, "I won't even present that offer, as it's too low."

We passed on the boat. We happened to run into the owner, about two years later, who eventually sold the boat for about 10% less than we had tried to offer, a year after we tried to offer on it. He said his broker never even told him we'd tried to make an offer, and he would probably have accepted it at the time, as it took almost another whole year to sell the boat. Oh, and turned out that the two aft fuel tanks in the lazarette had leaks, and had been taken out of commission 15 years previously, and the broker KNEW they leaked, because not only had the sellers TOLD him that, but they had noted it IN WRITING in the write up they provided to him when the boat was first listed. . . .

I don't believe all brokers are bottom feeders. We've met TWO who I wouldn't put in that category. The one who represented the boat we currently have (the one from WA state above) spent a fair amount of time on the phone with us, even went down to the boat and did a Facetime, realtime of the boat for us, until his battery on his phone died. He even got us in touch with the owners at my request, because the boat is a little bit of a Unicorn, and they knew way more about the boat than he did. We really appreciated that. I would recommend him. I don't say that lightly.

Oh, another interesting situation. A POPs boats broker wouldn't agree to show us a boat (several states away) unless we submitted a full price offer, with earnest money. Yeah, we passed on that one as well . . . .

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Why would $50 entice them to do the job that they agreed to do?

It is for a different purpose. It gets rid of people looking to spend a Sunday touring a boat.

It worked incredibly well once I did it witht RV this past spring.

Honor and integrity is basically gone now among the general population. People who aren't buying things think nothing of making you do a clean and spend 2 days traveling to/from whatever you're selling just so they can see what a sailboat (or truck camper) looks like.

I had half a dozen of them because truck campers are rare on the east coast. They all said they had cash in hand and wanted to buy that day, until after the tour.

After I put in the $50 to tour it policy, I had way less people and only went up once more to show/sell it

[Kd9truck]

I would not/will not pay to step onto a vessel, at a boat show that’s different circumstance, in my opinion, you are seeing many vessels, they are being shown for that purpose by brokers and the vessels in most cases are owned by the dealership or the manufacturer.
I will list and “sell by owner” when I am ready, I have been successful so far. I end up giving a guided tour, I ask questions while giving said tour if they are un engaged I make short work of it, not in an impolite way, but you get what you give.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Chotu

After I put in the $50 to tour it policy, I had way less people and only went up once more to show/sell it

I’m sure you’re correct. It probably does reduce the number of tire kickers. But every buyer starts as a tire kicker. When I sold my last boat I had a lot of such folks. I was able to weed some of them out, but the person who finally bought looked just like many of the other tire-kickers.

What I did was publish an exhaustive and detailed sales website. When I was contacted by a potential buyer, I could quickly determine if they’d read the website. If not, I’d direct them there first. It was pretty easy to see who was serious this way.

Showing the boat is just part of the job of selling. This is especially true of someone who has been hired to do the job: i.e. a broker. If they don’t want to do the job, or can’t do the job, then they shouldn't accept the boat.

The other dynamic is that used boat sales have switched from a sellers to a buyer’s market. There are lots of boats for sale these days. If a broker won’t do the job, there are always others that will. These bad brokers will soon be weeded out.