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Old 31-07-2022, 15:17   #1
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Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

Orcas sink a yacht after damage to the rudder - 5 rescued by nearby fishing boat.

This was bound to happen eventually and you wonder where it will end.

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...se-coast/69112
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:07   #2
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

The governments are trying to protect the Orcas.

So far there has been a ban on small vessels in certain areas, certain times of the year.

The guidelines for eventual encounters provided by the spanish government didnt help much preserving the integrity of the boats involved in the encounters.

This is the first sailboat that is a total loss...

It is a difficult subject.

Orcas are the apex predator in their habitat. There is not a way to persuade them to stop. They are on top and know no fear. And at the same time, they are an endagered species in part due to human activity.

Banning navigation of small vessels is like with the lockdowns: it can only be conducted up to a certain point. People has been sailing since tens of thousends of years. And they will continue to do so.

My take is that eventually these interactions will end with the loss of human life.

The way the world works, if those humans happen to be holders of a strong passport, their government will then conduct the culling of the animals.

Of course it can also happen that the orcas attack the wrong boat and get hurt or even killed on the process.

Surely there is a post apocalytic sailor out there carrying the kind of weapon to defend himself from pirates, orcas and alien abductions.

Meanwhile, we keep sailing.
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:17   #3
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

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Surely there is a post apocalytic sailor out there carrying the kind of weapon to defend himself from pirates, orcas and alien abductions. Meanwhile, we keep sailing.
This is Europe we are talking about, we don't really do guns anymore. The idea of carrying something that will stop 5 tonnes of Orca will certainly get you lots of attention from the boys in black with the fast ribs.

Now will you excuse me, just popping out to get my dive cylinder filled
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:54   #4
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

Guys we have 3 Orca threads running in parallel, not sure we need another one..
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Old 04-08-2022, 07:47   #5
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

This has me thinking now about what I might do in an emergency like this to convince the whales to go away. This article offers some ideas. But I'm wondering if there isn't some kind of underwater speaker you could lower into the water which could be used to broadcast sounds designed to repel them.


https://response.restoration.noaa.go...oil-spill.html

The Sound of Readiness
Killer whales are acoustic animals. They use sound to communicate with each other and find food through echolocation, a type of biosonar. Because sound is so important, using loud or annoying sounds is one way that we can try to keep the whales away from an area contaminated with oil.

We brainstormed a variety of ideas based on experience with killer whales and other animals and evaluated a long list of ideas, including sounds, as well as more experimental approaches, such as underwater lights, air bubble curtains, and hoses.

After receiving lots of input and carefully evaluating each option, we developed an oil spill response plan for killer whales that includes three main techniques to deploy quickly if the whales are headed straight toward a spill. Helicopter hazing, banging pipes (oikomi pipes), and underwater firecrackers are on the short list of options.

Here's a little more about each approach:

Helicopters are often available to do surveillance of oil and look for animals when a spill occurs. By moving at certain altitudes toward the whales, a helicopter creates sound and disturbs the water’s surface, which can motivate or “haze” whales to move away from oiled areas.
Banging pipes, called oikomi pipes, are metal pipes about eight feet long which are lowered into the water and struck with a hammer to make a loud noise. These pipes have been used to drive or herd marine mammals. For killer whales, pipes were successfully used to help move several whales that were trapped in a freshwater lake in Alaska.
Underwater firecrackers can also be used to deter whales. These small explosives are called “seal bombs” because they were developed and can be used to keep seals and sea lions away [PDF] from fishing gear. These small charges were used in the 1960s and 1970s to help capture killer whales for public display in aquaria. Now we are using historical knowledge of the whales’ behavior during those captures to support conservation of the whales.
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Old 05-08-2022, 02:02   #6
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

We are currently at anchor in Corme close to Finisterre.
When passing A Coruña yesterday we had some dolphins visiting, dark fins and light bellies, but clearly not Orca.
But I have to admit I was very happy that the fins were not bigger :-)

We leave our depth sounder off when offshore.
Maybe that helps a bit.
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:27   #7
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pirate Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

I think this is an individual pod that travels with the food source..
Currently they appear to be along the SW Portuguese coast and will head N as the seasons change so your yet to come within range of them.
As to the depth sounder, yes I think that could be something that may be in their acoustic range which may be an attraction for the youngsters who appear to be the instigators.
When one considers these are likely 3-4yr olds one could say they are just bored kids looking for entertainment.. kinda like human kids..
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Old 05-08-2022, 03:40   #8
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

Is there any information about exactly what occurred?

Saying “Orcas sank boat” may be very misleading.

It strikes me as far more likely that the rudder was damaged and fell out or otherwise created a significant leak. If that is the case the root cause is could either be putting to sea with an improperly prepared vessel or a structurally weak vessel.

I understand there are folks who are adamant no sailboat should ever touch anything hard, and that their boats need structural inspection after grounding is acceptable. And that is fine. But then don’t blame the whales when your boat sinks.

I am if the opinion boats should be sufficient structural integrity to survive sine unintended rough treatment and sail away. Of course where you draw that line is wide open to opinion. But it should be somewhere above having an orca bump your rudder, or having the rudder strike a deadhead up to waterline speed.
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Old 05-08-2022, 04:02   #9
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I think this is an individual pod that travels with the food source..

Currently they appear to be along the SW Portuguese coast and will head N as the seasons change so your yet to come within range of them.

As to the depth sounder, yes I think that could be something that may be in their acoustic range which may be an attraction for the youngsters who appear to be the instigators.

When one considers these are likely 3-4yr olds one could say they are just bored kids looking for entertainment.. kinda like human kids.. [emoji3]
Not sure upon that we are not in their territory yet [emoji846]Click image for larger version

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Old 05-08-2022, 04:40   #10
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pirate Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

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Not sure upon that we are not in their territory yet [emoji846]Attachment 262212

Oh your in their territory alright just not where they appear to be at the moment.. their territory stretches from the La Coruña area down to the Gibraltar Strait, location varies with food source, the bluefin tuna is currently running so they will follow them down as they head for the Med.
Tuna season June till November..
Oh.. and it seems the overall group is now around 60 Orca, they've made a comeback since 2011 when they were down to under 40.. dunno how many family pods there are.
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Old 05-08-2022, 06:18   #11
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Is there any information about exactly what occurred?

Saying “Orcas sank boat” may be very misleading.

It strikes me as far more likely that the rudder was damaged and fell out or otherwise created a significant leak. If that is the case the root cause is could either be putting to sea with an improperly prepared vessel or a structurally weak vessel.

I understand there are folks who are adamant no sailboat should ever touch anything hard, and that their boats need structural inspection after grounding is acceptable. And that is fine. But then don’t blame the whales when your boat sinks.

I am if the opinion boats should be sufficient structural integrity to survive sine unintended rough treatment and sail away. Of course where you draw that line is wide open to opinion. But it should be somewhere above having an orca bump your rudder, or having the rudder strike a deadhead up to waterline speed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougal_Robertson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauric...Maralyn_Bailey

hark, hark, the structural expert is here...!
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:40   #12
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

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Originally Posted by SV Tom Crean View Post
Orcas sink a yacht after damage to the rudder - 5 rescued by nearby fishing boat.

This was bound to happen eventually and you wonder where it will end.

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...se-coast/69112

I wonder if they can tag the pod somehow and provide a tracking mechanism?
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:46   #13
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

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I wonder if they can tag the pod somehow and provide a tracking mechanism?
I think that would be great, but the fact that some might try to catch or kill them than makes it unlikely.

There is a website called Orcaiberica which at least lists the latest interactions on a map.
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:20   #14
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Is there any information about exactly what occurred?

Saying “Orcas sank boat” may be very misleading.

It strikes me as far more likely that the rudder was damaged and fell out or otherwise created a significant leak. If that is the case the root cause is could either be putting to sea with an improperly prepared vessel or a structurally weak vessel.

I understand there are folks who are adamant no sailboat should ever touch anything hard, and that their boats need structural inspection after grounding is acceptable. And that is fine. But then don’t blame the whales when your boat sinks.

I am if the opinion boats should be sufficient structural integrity to survive sine unintended rough treatment and sail away. Of course where you draw that line is wide open to opinion. But it should be somewhere above having an orca bump your rudder, or having the rudder strike a deadhead up to waterline speed.
I'm with you on that.

A leaking rudder shaft shouldn't sink the boat.

To be fair though, I doubt the ship's designer considered a large rubbery rock swimming sideways in his design constraints.
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Old 07-08-2022, 03:57   #15
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Re: Orcas sink yacht off Portugal

I think Boatman may be right, but can't really know. Still I would shut down, drop sail and not engage...just like an annoying teen-ager.

"When one considers these are likely 3-4yr olds one could say they are just bored kids looking for entertainment.. kinda like human kids."

I think they should be assembling data quickly and sharing with the sailing community. I have heard bits, but not seen any sort of real accumulation and analysis.

i.e.Motoring or sailing. Power or sail. power shut down or left on, sail dowsed or left up. Feeding behavior or just rudder knocking. What was the human response...yelling, pointing, feeding, speeding up or slowing down?

Most importantly which response was successful and which was a failure?
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