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Manateeman · 04-09-2021, 20:02

Do acoustic deterrents work? At last a serious question. Well let us begin with the proper terminology. The field of study is generally referred to as bio acoustics, and that fortunately is a field that, I might add with modesty, I have a reasonable degree of knowledge. Well not expertise with regard orca behavior in relation to specific signals. Manatees yes but not orcas.
However...thankfully...one need not have studied bioacoustics to have some idea of the subject matter. We are, after all, acoustic mammals.
Let’s begin with basics. Sound. We have amplitude, frequecy and time, duration.
Our reaction to sound is very interesting. The frequency of a baby crying. One could call it irritating but it’s perfect to bring attention. Amplitude is another thing we as mammals understand well. Raising your voice, an elephant trumpeting, Duration. The rhythmic beating of a human heart.
Now “deterrent”. Well that’s easy to understand. To prevent. Kinda nicer than force as if one is certain orcas can appreciate this subtle distinction.
Well can the understand what we want?
We can make it painful in an acoustic way but will that change their behavior.
Can you “teach “them anything. I doubt pain works. Food, yes. Pain, no.
A captive manatee was taught to press a button during a complex experiment to determine how well they hear...they cooperated, understood when and when not to press the button. A simple food reward. Manatees will do things we want. They are closely related to elephants. Manatee behavior is very different from elephants who occasionally kill the people who train them. Clearly the same is true for orcas in captivity. They understand killing things.
Orcas experience few things which change their behavior in the wild. Why will orcas connect painful noise with any change we want to see in their behavior with regard to boats. Why would an intelligent mammal begin to change behavior when they know nothing in their experience similar to this lesson we want to teach them. One can snap a whip at a lion in a cage and it works to change behavior but I don’t see how idea will work with orcas. Painful noise?
We know very little of their acoustic abilities or sensitivity.
The idea we are going to change the behavior of this huge, strong, social and intelligent mammal with acoustics is silly. Simply laughable.
You can kill them but I would not want to open a Pandora’s box with noise.
No one knows what their response will be but I’d think about the risks of making the situation worse. Let’s please try to not solve all conflicts with guns and bombs. Or by making painful noises.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark

Pelagic · 04-09-2021, 21:15

Manateeman, acoustic deterrents with Orcas have been used successfully by commercial fishermen for years to save their nets when the Orcas wait until the salmon or tuna are captured.

I have witnessed this in and out of the water and the Decibel impact would be no more of an impact than a thunder clap above you.

THEY WORK!

You are not the only one with a degree in Marine Biology and I am looking at the big picture of preventing a human attack by applying a known working solution as a deterrent.
Less pedantic dazzel and less woke ness in favor of common sense is preferred

SeanPatrick · 04-09-2021, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Not sure if it has been mentioned...but how about tagging a GPS/AIS on the naughty Orcas so that everyone knows where they are and try to stay away from them.
Abe

Capital idea!

Pelagic · 04-09-2021, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

Capital idea!

Good luck avoiding them

The orca or killer whale, is the second fastest marine mammal, reaching maximum speeds of*56 km/h (34.8 mph).28 May 2021

Seabeau · 05-09-2021, 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

I knocked her on the head inside 10mins.. as she repeatedly refers to them as killer whales instead of Orca.
Ignorant and obviously pushing the emotive agenda..

But I bet what really made you uncomfortable, was her comment that overfishing did not appear to the the reason for the whales aggression. lol.

rapanui 2 · 05-09-2021, 02:49

what is the difference between orcas and killerwhales??? what is the point? is that important? just think about the people that are blocked out on a spannish shipyard and have to pay thousands to fix their boats? come back on earth teddybears!! they break my boat they will be killed!!

**boatman61** · 05-09-2021, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabeau

But I bet what really made you uncomfortable, was her comment that overfishing did not appear to the the reason for the whales aggression. lol.

Not really.. have never suggested it was the reason..
Orca would be attacking fishing boats not teasing yachties if they were pissed off about that.

sailingabe41ds · 05-09-2021, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Good luck avoiding them

The orca or killer whale, is the second fastest marine mammal, reaching maximum speeds of*56 km/h (34.8 mph).28 May 2021

It is not a matter of outrunning them. If you are sailing in an area that you know the naughty Orcas are there you can try changing your course 25-50 miles away instead of running right into them. The authorities are telling people in the area to avoid them. How are you suppose avoid them if you do not know where they are? If you just a day sailor in the area...guess what...the Orcas are in town, maybe I will go hiking instead.
If you have a better solution let us know because this a disaster ready to happen and when it does they may have to sacrifice a few naughty Orcas like they do with bears and mountain lions on land.
At the end of the day we want to minimize property damage, potential loss of life, and protect Orcas.

Abe

Pelagic · 05-09-2021, 20:48

Abe, my guess is they will try a few acoustic seal bombs without telling anyone to see if it detters them from attacking boats

If not, they will probably just disappear. Humans come first

Manateeman · 07-09-2021, 05:02

Orcas “learned” their behavior over millions of years. A loud, sharp, painful noise is a very rare event in their natural environment. Yes, they will avoid it for now. But this is a mammal with a huge brain. What happens when they figure out firecrackers are not going to kill them. It’s clear they are capable of anger.
Noise is going to be like the little stick used to train elephants. One day the elephant just gets fed up and stomps that guy on his back.
But here is the real difference between elephants and Orcas. There are things in the environment of elephants which frighten them...lions. There is NOTHING in the world of Orcas to which they have had to adapt their behavior except other Orcas.
They are not going to “learn” anything. We do not understand their language, or how they communicate or teach young Orcas.
The real danger in acoustic “irritants” is they really might produce a very unwanted reaction long term. Do you really want to irritate a intelligent, huge, powerful mammal with big teeth who isn’t frightened by anything with a firecracker?
Please. Just let the scientist try to figure this out. Otherwise carry a bazooka.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark

rabbi · 07-09-2021, 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manateeman

Please. Just let the scientist try to figure this out. Otherwise carry a bazooka.
Happy trails to you.
Captain Mark

Wait for scientists...
Sounds like asking green urban activists to decide if the Wolf should allowed to return almost 200 years after extinction. Guess what the result is...

After the first incidents these urban folks tell shepherds how easy it is to protect sheeps with fences and dogs and donkeys and what not...
And then they wonder why shepherding is no longer a profitable business and the number of sheeps decreases at a stunning rate.

Unlikely the outcome here could be anything but a protocol demanding sailors to call for a tow.

hzcruiser · 07-09-2021, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rapanui 2

what is the difference between orcas and killerwhales??? what is the point? is that important? just think about the people that are blocked out on a spannish shipyard and have to pay thousands to fix their boats? come back on earth teddybears!! they break my boat they will be killed!!

No need to be derogative like that, rapanui!

hzcruiser · 07-09-2021, 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbi

Wait for scientists...
Sounds like asking green urban activists to decide if the Wolf should allowed to return almost 200 years after extinction. Guess what the result is...

After the first incidents these urban folks tell shepherds how easy it is to protect sheeps with fences and dogs and donkeys and what not...
And then they wonder why shepherding is no longer a profitable business and the number of sheeps decreases at a stunning rate.

Unlikely the outcome here could be anything but a protocol demanding sailors to call for a tow.

Yes, the wolf should be allowed back to Europe after we almost extinct it! Just like 20+years after culling crocs was prohibited here in Oz there are a few more fatal incidents now. Nevertheless, we have to accept that we cannot (and should not) control nature!

And about protecting sheep with fences... mate, you are so out of your depths, it's time to stop digging...