Orca Rudder Attacks: Solution

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by double u

...I'm surprised nobody has started shooting at the attacking animals. After all these attacks are potentially lifethreatening.
(or maybe somebody has, but keeps quiet about it...)

This is actually an interesting idea. According to the various reports by scientists, they have identified the individuals involved (Marine Law and Order?) and perhaps there needs to be a cull. We humans often cull man eaters on land. Orcas are not endangered but, would this actually solve the issue or make it worse?

On the other hand, the very first post may be the simplest and most effective solution. Of course, this assumes that one sees them and reacts BEFORE they attack.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Lifting your rudder clear of the water will not keep an Orca from biting it. It will keep you from steering the boat. I would hope that the Orca academy teaches the youngsters to stay away from spinning propellers.

Hmmmm.

I read through a report linked to from this forum that said the orcas were bashing into the rudders and keels. Playing. Not trying to eat the boat. You saw something different?

In any case, they couldn’t get my rudders if they are up. Not unless they board the boat.

And I don’t think you really want to be moving when they are doing this. Best to just sit there and wait for them to be done. Moving gives a predator the instinct to chase. Pick up the rotors and dagger boards, and just sit back and wait for them to leave. They will. Because you’re boring.

[Sandy Frank]

Originally Posted by double u

...I'm surprised nobody has started shooting at the attacking animals. After all these attacks are potentially lifethreatening.
(or maybe somebody has, but keeps quiet about it...)

I honestly doubt it.

Very few American flagged vessels over there, even fewer weapons, even fewer suicides and homicides.

Besides Ahab, I doubt they would be deterred by a mosquito bite like my 7.62 would produce, let alone the .38, 9mm, or .45s the cowboy sailors carry.

Originally Posted by Franziska

This site has got good info on the subject:

https://www.orcaiberica.org/recommendations

They have also a map showing the "attack" locations.

Now I do wonder if it's not possible instead of harming those wonderful animals to tag them and follow their location in real time by satellite and put that on an internet map.

As far as I understand, there is only a few animals involved and one could try to give them a wide bearth this way.

Orcas need air to breathe, so they surface frequently and that would be the moment when a satellite should be able to read a signal.

Regarding the effort of tagging them. Well there is a lot of resources involved with this matter at the moment, so the funds are perhaps available?
Not sure how easy it is though from a technical perspective.

This way it might be possible to establish a moving exclusion zone which could be smaller and therefore less impeding on the cruising area.

Lol I love this! Whale AIS! But the former engineering standards contributor in me is horrified by the amount of paperwork, committee meetings, technical comments, public comments, and firmware updates adding "killer f-ing whale" to the AIS system would involve.

Edit: "Kraken" would also be an appropriate vessel type label.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Unfortunately, the whales move, and thus the zones would move. Also, there is not realistic way of knowing where they are in real time and worse, even if you did find out where they were, there is no way a sailboat could move out of the way in time. The Orcas are too fast.

That was the point of my suggestion. Exactly, the zone would move. The pod seems to follow the tuna.

Now if you see they are heading south you could probably fairly safely reach a port in Galicia.
If you see them heading north for a while, you should perhaps wait a little.

It's unlikely that they will chase up the complete Portuguese coast in one day.
Not impossible, but unlikely.

I'm not suggesting to use that to clear them for 5miles...

Whale AIS would be cool, but I agree is unlikely.
But a real time map you could check before going on a coastal trip would definitely help to judge the risk and avoid them.

[ArmyDaveNY]

What if we just require them to use AIS? Also, we should require them to read the COLREGS!

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

What if we just require them to use AIS? Also, we should require them to read the COLREGS![emoji3]

Oh well...

[SV_FlyingTigress]

A couple of flashbangs dropped by the local government ? I here Orcas are learning animals... probably won't take too many times and they will give sailboats a wide berth ... and no dead whales, no more molested sailboats.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

A couple of flashbangs dropped by the local government ? I here Orcas are learning animals... probably won't take too many times and they will give sailboats a wide berth ... and no dead whales, no more molested sailboats.

Oh well...

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

.. probably won't take too many times and they will give sailboats a wide berth ... and no dead whales, no more molested sailboats.

Interesting programme recently showed killer whales off the PNW attacking a sperm whale and her calf. After many hours working as a team they finally managed to get between the mother and calf, drowning the calf for the soul purpose of eating the liver. The rest of the calf ignored and sank.

Since a rudder resembles a fish tail, motoring backwards probably confuses them, for now, until they 'click' to what is happening. The recent pictures of one rudder shows it wasn't just bumped but more likely bitten.

Culling little Orcas, so rich yachties can go sailing would be PR disaster too.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Interesting programme recently showed killer whales off the PNW attacking a sperm whale and her calf. After many hours working as a team they finally managed to get between the mother and calf, drowning the calf for the soul purpose of eating the liver. The rest of the calf ignored and sank.



Since a rudder resembles a fish tail, motoring backwards probably confuses them, for now, until they 'click' to what is happening. The recent pictures of one rudder shows it wasn't just bumped but more likely bitten.



Culling little Orcas, so rich yachties can go sailing would be PR disaster too.

Just the idea of harming them deliberately to make the live of us yachties easier is disgusting beyond belief.
To me that includes flash bang or anything like that.

As sailors we need to treat the environment in which we are really just guests with as much respect as possible.

Hence my thoughts on tagging them to give them space (like at least 10nm around).
Tagging whales or other animals is an established procedure and not very harmful if done by professionals.

[Dave_S]

Noonsite have an article... They are on the move.
https://www.noonsite.com/news/nw-spa...achts-damaged/

I firmly believe it is the noise that comes off the rudder is at a frequency that annoys this particular whale and thereby the group. Something to change the sound might prevent attack, but maybe once you are targeted it might be too late.

[MicHughV]

Not sure what to make of this thread...not so long ago I was at Vancouver Island for the explicit purpose of Orca watching...and I'm happy to say, saw many.

Our guide was telling us that some Orca's are locals...ie, they stay in the same area all the time, while others are transient..some stay in the area between Vancouver Island and BC, others prefer the offshore waters....and they don't mix and match at all. The guides know many of the pods or even individuals by their markings.
I was intrigued to learn the Orca's can sleep while swimming, ie, you see them moving along on the surface, but they are in fact sleeping.

They typically travel in a group (pod), which has their own hierarchy system.

So, reading this thread makes me think, there is only one particular family of Orca's at work here of the coast of Portugal. It's possible, that one or more of them may have suffered some or other injury at the hands of a vessel, which makes all vessels the bad guy. They may, in fact, have been sleeping when the interaction occurred. ??

It would likely take a research vessel to search out the Orca's and see if they can determine some of them by markings, a pattern of behavior or something. These attacks appear to occur more or less along the same section of coastline, so more than likely the same pod ??

I'm no Orca expert by any definition, just relating my experience from Vancouver Island.

[Franziska]

Anyone here have thoughts what they do if you are appendage less?

On our cat we can retrieve the pivoting center board, the engines (two outboards) and the rudders (with a bit of effort).

So all in the water are two hulls.

Balance the sails and steer with that balance. Probably not very practical in close quarters or rough weather, but out in the open in good to medium weather that should be possible.

Btw, did any of the attacks happen in bad weather?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

A couple of flashbangs dropped by the local government ? I here Orcas are learning animals... probably won't take too many times and they will give sailboats a wide berth ... and no dead whales, no more molested sailboats.

Presumably the “flash bangs” would have to near sailboats so the orcas can associate one with the other.

The solution of course could do more harm then a partially chewed rudder ……!!!

[goboatingnow]

As for the prop protecting the rudder I doubt my little 27 hp sail drive 1.5 metres from the rudder would have much effect on an 4 Tonne Orca