On the philosophy of cruising

[TheDoubleDeuce]

I know nothing. I've never even been on a sailboat, live in a land-locked state, and at least 10 years out from the budget to be able to do anything I propose. Regardless, I will do my best to rant and rave for a bit, so I will put a TL;DR at the bottom for anyone who isn't interested.

I've always felt like the 9-5 is a trap. So many of us spend the majority of our lives doing something we would rather not do (work) to buy things that enable us to keep working, while (at least in America) the housing market and education costs have gone haywire, resulting in an average quality of life much lower than it was 50 years ago. The work/life balance has shifted unfavorably, and I don't have anything to complain about (I'm incredibly privileged) but I am complaining anyway because we can find a way to be discontent with anything. I think humans are defined by our suffering and therefore seek it out subconsciously in all situations. I constantly fall victim to the allure of retail therapy - since my life (aside from raising my kids and spending time with my wife) doesn't seem to have any significant purpose for me as an individual, I feel unfulfilled and tend toward escapism. Surprise, having 3 vehicles, an expensive motorcycle, an 82" tv, a new Macbook, all the latest movies, tv shows, books... they're not fulfilling in the long term. They're a temporary escape that brings reality crashing down again as soon as the credits roll. I'm trying to fill a void that can't be filled with gadgets, and the prospect of working 9-5 for another 30 years invokes a kind of hopeless despair. But that's "just what people do" right? You HAVE to work, right? Be a good member of society! Put your nose to the grindstone!

In short, I'm always looking forward to the next thing (vacation, purchase, celebration) in hopes that it satisfies my desire, but it never does, or at best the satisfaction is fleeting. Back to the grindstone for another 30 years, with only the odd weekend or semi-annual Disneyland vacation with the kids to keep your morale up.

Similarly, I've always been a dreamer, and a bit of a hopeless romantic. I've considered leaving my high-tech life to go live in a cabin in the woods without electricity. I've considered becoming Amish. I've considered becoming a blacksmith. None of these seemed particularly feasible because I couldn't make enough of an income for the associated costs, or I don't have the skills, or I'm not religious in the slightest, and an isolated land-locked life in a cabin seems like something I probably just don't have the skills to survive.

I've also always wanted to travel, because there's so much more to the world than my little corner of America. I have my SCUBA certification. I joined the military in hopes of travel (and did little of it). I have a travel-focused credit card, an active passport, my Global Entry card, brand new vehicles and a full tank of gas - and I'm still essentially unable to do any traveling. Weekend trips in the car, not the week-long European excursions I'd love to do. The trappings of modern society prevent it. We have the money - but we don't have the time.

I only discovered "cruisers" about a month ago. Since then it's all I can think about. It seems like an alternative win condition to life. You can retire early, do all the traveling you want, enjoy the best part of your life while you're young enough to do so, rather than waiting until your "golden years" to do what you want to do. I've watched too many people work until the day they die. Terribly depressing.

So what's the hold up? Build a budget! Start saving! Just do it! Well, I want to make sure I study this from all angles. I might be over-analyzing, but I want to try to understand the realities of the daily grind as a cruiser. I'm sure everyone who goes home after their Hawaiian vacation wants to pack up and buy a house there, until they realize that working and living in Hawaii is an entirely different animal than vacationing in Hawaii. Similarly, of course I would need to charter a boat a few times at least. I would need to take courses to learn how to sail, how to operate a radio, basic electronics courses for solar and battery maintenance, small engine repair, carpentry, etc. etc. I don't even know how to tie a good knot.

But there's a nagging feeling that I will never understand what it means to live on a boat day in and day out until I actually do it for an extended length of time. How much will I actually care about: showering with a bucket? visas and paperwork for entering countries? The possibility of crime? Exchange rates, language barriers, culture shock? Claustrophobia? Strict budgeting? Working on the generator or the outboard or the rigging or the rudder or all of it at once in the cold, the rain, when I'm tired, and frustrated? I have an easy life now - one that I don't particularly enjoy, but easy. I have an office job. I have a California king. I have a water softener and a big hot water heater. I have a huge, expensive, comfortable couch that I lounge on to watch my huge TV with every movie in the world. I have stable, fast Internet. Creature comforts that I now have and will continue to get used to using, and if I make the leap into cruising, there's no turning back. I would sell my house and all my assets and live off the interest of my investments after dumping capital into my boat purchase.

So I want to jump in head-first, save money and prepare for the next 10-15 years and then leave it all behind and just GO, assuming that my wife actually wants to do it as well. She's supportive, but I'm not convinced that her heart is in it, and this is one of the biggest areas of concern but outside the scope of the forum so largely omitted here. Cruising is the only prospect that has actually given me hope and a sense of purpose of any possible reality that I can envision for myself. I just don't want to get there and realize I've made a mistake because I didn't fully understand the situation.

Here's the kind of setup I'm considering at this infancy stage of planning:

30-45ft catamaran up to $100k-ish (Wife would do better with more open space and less rocking)
$1500-2000+ budget per month
No assets and no debts on land
Would like the possibility of passages as I'd be in it for... 20+ years?

Now I understand there will be points of contention ("The gemini 105mc is too small for passages! Cats aren't built for passages! Fiberglass is crap, it's going to deteriorate away! An old cat on that budget won't last that long!") and those are what I'm here to hear. Tell me I'm an idiot for assuming I can plan the rest of my life doing something I know nothing about. Tell me I'm an idiot for thinking my setup is realistic. Tell me I'm just like everyone else who dreams of becoming a cruiser and never does because of X or Y or both. Or tell me that you were just like me and did it and have no regrets because the positives outweighed the negatives.

TL;DR Do you think a significant portion of dreamers and romanticizers end up disillusioned with liveaboard sailing and call their trip short or forgo it altogether?

[Joh.Ghurt]

One advice: Book a sailing holiday via berth-charter for you and your wife next. This will give you your first set of answers and plan your next step once you have your answers.

A big part of the experience is also the way to get there.

[TheDoubleDeuce]

Absolutely, will do, thank you. It might also be worth noting that I've always had a keen interest in boats, ships, and the ocean. A line from Moby Dick has always stuck out to me: "Let the most absent-minded of men be plunged in his deepest reveries—stand that man on his legs, set his feet a-going, and he will infallibly lead you to water, if water there be in all that region." My favorite subject in school was U-boats. In fact I joined the military to be on a submarine and was turned away due to mild colorblindness. My favorite movie is Master and Commander. I've read the corresponding books. I love the ocean, islands, tropical retreats - but I've never lived there. My wife, however, is more apprehensive of water and especially the idea of passages. I do think that with time and reassurance, especially of the safety measures and statistics of modern boating, that she would come around altogether. Not like I'd be going transatlantic without some number of years of actual experience under my belt anyway.

[sailorboy1]

If you are the type that always has to be busy, gets bored quickly, is always looking for something new and exciting, thinks of cruising as a never ending exploration of new places, new adventures, sundowners on the beach everyday. Then...................



Living and cruising on a boat may not be for you!

[TheDoubleDeuce]

It's an interesting point Sailorboy, but I believe my restlessness stems from the fact that I don't feel fulfilled by my hobbies / activities. I believe that if I was doing something that I felt gave me purpose in the long term (exploring the world, living life rather than giving it up to corporate) then my restlessness would be settled.

That is particularly hard to say for certain given that I've never actually felt fulfilled to test the theory.

[Mike OReilly]

A lot of people come on here with this kind of post DD. Few go beyond dreaming. At this point in your exploration there are too many unknown-unknowns. You need to get out there and get some actual experience.

The most insightful thing you wrote is: "But there's a nagging feeling that I will never understand what it means to live on a boat day in and day out until I actually do it for an extended length of time."

Personally, I'd recommend getting some experience on any boat first. If you are near active sailing areas then get connected to the local boating groups. Make friends with boat owners. If there is an active racing group, they always need crew.

Other options are to take some liveaboard cruising courses. These will give you the experience of living on a boat, but also teach you some skills.

Once you have some sense how to run a sailboat, I suggest getting yourself an actual cruising-level boat, and get out there are do it. Something in the 26-32 foot range, monohull (probably). They can be had for relatively little, but owning and running one will give you real experience with what it actually means to be a cruiser.

It's not like the glossy mags or youtubers make it out to be. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's hell. Cruising is just like any other lifestyle choice, there are ups and downs. Only by doing it for a while will you (and your wife) learn if the positives outweigh the negatives.

[ol1970]

You will be as happy out cruising as you are today. Humans have a tendency to adapt back to their baseline of happiness. There was a study years ago that documented one group of lottery winners and another group of people who became paraplegic due to automobile accidents. 2 years after the event both groups reported being the same exact level of overall happiness as before the life changing event happened. If you are bored now with your life on land, you'll be bored shortly with sailing.

There are dozens of YouTube sailing channels showing sailors out there on a shoestring budget, not able to properly maintain their boat, or having to decide if they will eat lunch that particular day or not to save money so they can fix their boat. To me that would be an absolute living hell, having to beg for patrons and donations, but to them it is "freedom" and living life. There is no wrong answer, but don't just think going to live on a boat is going to make you and your wife's life more complete. Yes it would be better than just accumulating more stuff while you work in a cubicle, but I'm of the opinion that you enjoy your life no matter what stage you are at whether it be working to save for a goal, or out there cruising.

[TheDoubleDeuce]

Thank you Mike. The difficult part of this is that I'm about 7 hours from the nearest ocean. There is a lake nearby and I can look there to see if there are sailing groups there so I can at least get my feet wet.

I think chartering a boat or doing a liveaboard cruising course as you suggested would be great for my wife (and I, but especially her), particularly if it was on a cat, so she could get a real feel for the whole experience as she's more apprehensive and for different reasons than I am.

The difficult part is that buying a boat and keeping it in a slip at the lake would reduce the amount I could save and prolong the possibility of retiring, which is a sad thing but perhaps a necessary evil. I will look into the activity at the lake as I'm sure there are things to be learned there, thank you.

Ol1970, you make a good point - I do try to enjoy life at all stages. Some of the most fun I've had in my life was filling sandbags in the military in the sweltering heat with chem gear on. With that said, my happiness is more superficial and forced. I know that I'm privileged, I know I have a great life and nothing to complain about and I should be content. The thing I'm struggling with is really the 5-day workweek: Why, when computers and automation have massively increased our productivity and output since the industrial revolution, are 5-day workweeks still the norm? Why do we simply accept that such a large portion of our lives must be given away to faceless corporations doing things we'd rather not be doing?

Ultimately, even if I don't end up doing something as drastic as retiring and cruising for the remainder of my good years, I will almost certainly reduce the amount I work down to a part-time level, and accept the corresponding reduction in income that goes along with it. In fact I do wonder, now that you mention it, if part of this recent fervor for cruising is an extreme reaction to my unhappiness with 50+hr weeks, and if changing my circumstances to a more manageable level would give me a better outlook on regular land-based life. It's hard to say, because I would still be working for 30 more years doing things I don't really want to do, but at least the actual amount of time I'm giving up wouldn't be as drastic.

Wait, this is a therapy forum, right?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

It's an interesting point Sailorboy, but I believe my restlessness stems from the fact that I don't feel fulfilled by my hobbies / activities. I believe that if I was doing something that I felt gave me purpose in the long term (exploring the world, living life rather than giving it up to corporate) then my restlessness would be settled.

That is particularly hard to say for certain given that I've never actually felt fulfilled to test the theory.

By far the hardest part of making the change from just boating as a hobby/sport to cruising is learning to slow down and be ok and happy about it.

I just spent 2 weeks anchored on a weather hold. Nothing to but go to the same beach, read, play card games with my wife. In the evenings maybe the internet would be enough to watch a movie.

Can you see yourself being to be happy doing this because it isnt an uncommn event?

[TheDoubleDeuce]

It's easy to say yes, because it sounds great at the moment, but I understand that it may be different the third or fifth or tenth time that it happened. I can't honestly say. I would like to be able to say yes but I don't want to be dishonest and act like I know for a certainty.

On the upside I'm a techie person, so I have thousands of movies, shows, books and audiobooks all downloaded on a series of small hard drives. If I had a laptop, I would have endless entertainment in that regard. I do enjoy reading quite a bit, and playing cards is one of my main hobbies even now.

From where I sit, it does seem like I would enjoy that lifestyle. My wife is very similar to me in that regard, and while she is more social, I would bet we could sate that desire with marina / restaurants chats or playing cards and hanging out with other cruisers or houseboaters.

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

Ol1970, you make a good point - I do try to enjoy life at all stages. Some of the most fun I've had in my life was filling sandbags in the military in the sweltering heat with chem gear on. With that said, my happiness is more superficial and forced. I know that I'm privileged, I know I have a great life and nothing to complain about and I should be content. The thing I'm struggling with is really the 5-day workweek: Why, when computers and automation have massively increased our productivity and output since the industrial revolution, are 5-day workweeks still the norm? Why do we simply accept that such a large portion of our lives must be given away to faceless corporations doing things we'd rather not be doing?

Ultimately, even if I don't end up doing something as drastic as retiring and cruising for the remainder of my good years, I will almost certainly reduce the amount I work down to a part-time level, and accept the corresponding reduction in income that goes along with it. In fact I do wonder, now that you mention it, if part of this recent fervor for cruising is an extreme reaction to my unhappiness with 50+hr weeks, and if changing my circumstances to a more manageable level would give me a better outlook on regular land-based life. It's hard to say, because I would still be working for 30 more years doing things I don't really want to do, but at least the actual amount of time I'm giving up wouldn't be as drastic.

Wait, this is a therapy forum, right?

I "retired" from my career 7 years ago at the age of 43. I worked my butt off but loved 90% of it and would not change a thing. I started saving though at 22 and the magic of compound interest and a lot of hard work allowed me to choose what life I want to live. If your career is a soul sucking misery, then hell yes you need to change things up, life is too short. But if you have chosen a career you are passionate about work can actually be fun. Try and pivot to something that gives you a better work life balance.

[bensolomon]

Double Deuce,
You sound very insightful, with a full, and wonderful life, but yet there's something missing that you can't put your finger on....

Before you go all in on a boat, learn about yourself more. You might be looking for some spirituality, just don't know where to look. Spirituality is a journey, whereas religion is a "deal". I'm talking about spirituality. Sailing is definitely spiritual, but there are many ways to find your spirituality that will enhance your current life, rather than abruptly changing lifestyles.

One suggestion.....try Yoga. Yoga, is an eight fold path, replete with philosophy, centering, mindfulness, and self study (learning who you are). There is much more to it than just the movement (Asana). Yoga, is far more than some stretching, and it is immensely spiritual. You just have to find the right studio or teacher.

In the meantime, get this book: Yamas and Niyamas by Deborah Adele:

https://www.amazon.com/Yamas-Niyamas...=yamas+&sr=8-3

It's an easy read. If it piques your interest, follow the path, explore Yoga. And, yes, this is the therapy forum, and you're not alone. We are all in need of more spirituality.

Namaste,
Ben




Ben

[TheDoubleDeuce]

Interesting, Ben - not a response I expected to receive, but it's a welcome surprise. I have heard from actual therapists that two-thirds of the battle of learning who you are as a person is mindfulness meditation. We can get so caught up in the day-to-day that we never stop to think about our feelings on the matter!


An interesting suggestion. Thank you.


Also, I have scheduled ASA 101 for my wife and I at the local lake, a couple months out based on availability. Next step if that goes well, will be to charter a boat. I agree I need (some/any/more) experience and these are productive and fairly cheap ways to accomplish that.


I appreciate the input from everybody.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

...Also, I have scheduled ASA 101 for my wife and I at the local lake, a couple months out based on availability. Next step if that goes well, will be to charter a boat. I agree I need (some/any/more) experience and these are productive and fairly cheap ways to accomplish that.

Good plan. You will never really know if this lifestyle is for you -- and for her -- until you actually give it a try for a while. And I do hear you about the cost of buying a starter boat vs saving THE boat. All I can offer is my own experience, which is that I really didn't learn what I didn't know until I really started doing it. It's hard to put a price on experience, but I think it's worth it.

On that note, one caution about chartering. While it definitely will give you some useful experience, chartering also leaves a lot untouched. Most here will tell you the easiest part about owning a sailboat is sailing. It's all the other stuff that makes the lifestyle more challenging.

Chartering is a vacation, whereas living and cruising on a sailboat is a whole (different) lifestyle. If you're going to go this route, much better to find a liveaboard cruising course. Not sure when that starts with ASA, but I'd put my money there rather than just chartering.

Good luck. Hope the course goes well.

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And I do hear you about the cost of buying a starter boat vs saving THE boat.

Another thing to consider with typical starter boats at a certain age, they don't lose much value any more as long as you maintain it. Only the cost of maintenance and upgrades is lost. This can make a lot of sense on the journey.