On the philosophy of cruising

[thomm225]

You need to buy a boat as soon as possible and start being on it as much as you can whether that means in the nearest ocean, bay, lake, or pond near you so you can at least have an idea what it is like.

There's no need to wait and dream about something for years and years that could turn into a nightmare.

There are many here on CF that had that dream and are now on their boats doing what they call cruising which means usually doing nothing more than being at a marina for months on end or at anchor living on the boat.

The books about boats etc or fun and motivating but you have to actually do it to get the real sense of it.

You might love it, or you might hate it, but you don't have to wait years and years and spend tons of money just to see if you like it.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

None of these seemed particularly feasible because I couldn't make enough of an income for the associated costs, or I don't have the skills, or I'm not religious in the slightest,.............

Buy a boat to live on, and you will become either religious......., or an atheist in short order..........

Didn't read the rest of your short story, sorry.

[Jebtrois]

Deuce,
You are living a life of quiet desperation buying things you don't really want in order to impress people you don't even like. It's not about a boat...you are seeking an escape from the life you have made and one that you appear to continue to make. Get control over your spending and frivolous purchases. Research FIRE - Financial Independence Retire Early. Look at blogs like jlcollins and the simple path to wealth or millennial revolution.com or mr money mustache. Once you have mastered yourself and your money then you will be free to pursue any adventure you want to whether by land or sea.
JEB

[Talk Story]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Didn't read the rest of your short story, sorry.

[mjscottinnc]

Dreaming is a large part of cruising and boating. In my lifetime, which has spanned 67 years, I’ve been in hundreds of marina, anchorages, boat gathering spots and spent enough time in each to see what the inhabitants are all about, in that period of time there is a truth that never fails. 97.5% of the boats never go anywhere. Boats can be on the hard for 15 to 20 years, being worked on every weekend, there owners speaking of plans for great foreign adventures that never happen. The really sad part is when they get to the end of ‘getting the boat ready’ and there is nothing left to do... it gets a for sale sign posted on it. One dream dies, maybe a new one starts.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by mjscottinnc

Dreaming is a large part of cruising and boating. In my lifetime, which has spanned 67 years, I’ve been in hundreds of marina, anchorages, boat gathering spots and spent enough time in each to see what the inhabitants are all about, in that period of time there is a truth that never fails. 97.5% of the boats never go anywhere. Boats can be on the hard for 15 to 20 years, being worked on every weekend, there owners speaking of plans for great foreign adventures that never happen. The really sad part is when they get to the end of ‘getting the boat ready’ and there is nothing left to do... it gets a for sale sign posted on it. One dream dies, maybe a new one starts.

This is what I discovered when i first was able to get back to the coast with big dreams of long distance sailing.

I met one guy that was on his boat so I asked him a few questions. His boat was perfect and ready to go, but he didn't go. He seemed not to know what to do next.

I met several like this and since I was only 39 years old then and working, I bought a new Nacra 6.0 like they were racing there in Pensacola, FL in 1995 and continued to race.

I sold one of my Hobie 16's but kept one also.

I lived on the water at an apartment with a dock and a spot I could park my two beach cats just above high water where they were tied down.

For the next 10 years, I watch lots of guys getting their boats ready to sail RTW or maybe across Pensacola Bay but they rarely left the dock.

[dwedeking2]

I was always the "go go go do do do" type of person, trying to fit into other people's dreams of what I should be (successful business owner, support the family, etc etc). After I got sick (my diagnosis was an allergic reaction to stress, doctors called it diabetes) I realized that all their dreams weren't mine and I was literally killing myself trying to fit into what society/family wanted me to be.



I've always enjoyed living near the water (scuba diving, living on the beach etc) but was not really a boat person. After doing research for a number of years (reading every book I could find on the subject, lurking here) I took on sailing as a way to live with a smaller footprint and move around (not really a fan of travel, as in going somewhere for a week or two, but I like to move locations every 3 - 5 years and live somewhere new) economically. Didn't really know (or to some extent care) if sailing as a means of moving would be enjoyable.



After doing a week live aboard school in La Paz, MX I found that sailing was enjoyable. I relocated to Jacksonville FL and have been living aboard for the last 4 years (now in Key West) while I work and build a kitty / finish boat projects. I've found that I love the lifestyle and it's more in align with me as a person.



When I first got sick I started working on my photography as a way to slow down (can't see the picture to be taken if your always running around) and this helped a lot. I'm also an avid reader and have found now that I've slowed down I can read deeper books besides just escapism. I guess it would be a form of meditation, and I'm learning things to just know them vs studying up on a subject for a job or project.



Be warned though, I've lived in a number of "retirement" places (Hawai'i, Mexico, Keys) and I've seen a number of retirees move to these places after vacationing for years with no real plan on what to do with their time. They get bored, start committees and activism to find ways to change all these places to be more like the suburban hells they moved away from. Have a plan that includes how you are going to adapt to retirement, it's as important as all the plans on how your going to get to the retirement stage.

[SV__Grace]

If I were you I would get a boat and keep it in the most accessible marina that is possible for you to visit when you can get away.

Think of it as a cheap vacation cabin.

Then spend as much time on it as humanly possible, both "living" on it and taking it out to get some experience on the water.

Be sure your wife in on board and be responsive to what she needs to make it workable for her.

Four years ago my wife avoided boats and would get violently seasick on the water, now we are happy, full time cruisers. It was a gradual process, a journey that we took together, step by step, always with her on board for the next step.

Life is too short for dreaming without action.

There are ALWAYS obstacles and reasons for "No," or "I can't because..." but there is usually only ONE reason for "Yes"- because it's important, it's who you are, you only live once, and your time on this planet is short and getting shorter every day.

[sowwaninii]

I’m sure almost every cruiser/live aboard has has a similar conversation where someone hears you’re living on a sailboat. The universal response: “you’re living the dream”. Upon which I point out that nightmares are dreams too! And if you live aboard, inevitably you going to have a few of them.

[Marathon1150]

Lots of really good advice and thinking in the previous responses to the OP. I agree with all of it and can emphasize a couple:

1. Try before you buy. An extended cruise and learn experience will be very helpful for a couple. Do this before buying a boat. We were happy dinghy sailors and were optimistic, at least I was, that we would like to cross an ocean sometime. The cruise and learns worked out very well and we certainly discovered that you spend about 10% of your time sailing and 90% fixing the boat. It is often said that bluewater sailing is fixing your boat in foreign places. There is a well known ocean going cruise and learn instructors that can be found at mahina.com. They tied up next to us in Papeete in 2019 after an instructional voyage from NZ to Tahiti. Two of the six or so paying crew on board were a couple. They owned a 56' boat but they had not sailed offshore. They learned that he loved it and she hated it. This experience helped them create a cruising plan that would work for both of them. Mahina is running cruise and learns out of Washington state this year because of the pandemic. Worth looking into.

2. The fun to suck ratio. I may have exaggerated the 90/10 ratio of fixing to sailing but for me, the fixing is a part of the joy of boat ownership. I have enjoyed 95% of my work life and home life but solving boat problems is really different from my day job and a great source of satisfaction. Learning new things is part of the joy of boat ownership and sailing.

3. Sailing is a sport and a lifestyle. I also ride a motorcycle. Many, many years ago when I was taking the practical test for a license, the examiner said "motorcycling is a sport more than a form of transportation, you will need to be prepared to be very uncomfortable at times". Sailing is just like that.

Good luck with all of this, I hope it works out for you and your family.

[jim King]

I think you will learn a lot in a one or two week crewed charter vacation. It won't teach you about the good and bad about really owning and operating a boat but will let you experience the lifestyle before you go all in and buy a boat and start the experience without the knowledge and experience you will need to make it work. After a crewed vacation you and your wife may decide this isn't your cup of tea. If you find the experience to your liking then you need to take the courses necessary to experience it without the crew (courses up to and including ASA 104). Next try the charter vacation without the crew where you are responsible for the safety of the crew (and your family). Still happy with the experience? Still want to go all in with a boat of your own? A good compromise might be ownership in a boat in charter where you can enjoy the use without the expense and headache of maintaining a boat. After 5 years in charter you can then decide whether to sever ties with land and do it full time.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

I know nothing. I've never even been on a sailboat, live in a land-locked state, and at least 10 years out from the budget to be able to do anything I propose. Regardless, I will do my best to rant and rave for a bit, so I will put a TL;DR at the bottom for anyone who isn't interested.

I've always felt like the 9-5 is a trap. So many of us spend the majority of our lives doing something we would rather not do (work) to buy things that enable us to keep working, while (at least in America) the housing market and education costs have gone haywire, resulting in an average quality of life much lower than it was 50 years ago. The work/life balance has shifted unfavorably, and I don't have anything to complain about (I'm incredibly privileged) but I am complaining anyway because we can find a way to be discontent with anything. I think humans are defined by our suffering and therefore seek it out subconsciously in all situations. I constantly fall victim to the allure of retail therapy - since my life (aside from raising my kids and spending time with my wife) doesn't seem to have any significant purpose for me as an individual, I feel unfulfilled and tend toward escapism. Surprise, having 3 vehicles, an expensive motorcycle, an 82" tv, a new Macbook, all the latest movies, tv shows, books... they're not fulfilling in the long term. They're a temporary escape that brings reality crashing down again as soon as the credits roll. I'm trying to fill a void that can't be filled with gadgets, and the prospect of working 9-5 for another 30 years invokes a kind of hopeless despair. But that's "just what people do" right? You HAVE to work, right? Be a good member of society! Put your nose to the grindstone!

In short, I'm always looking forward to the next thing (vacation, purchase, celebration) in hopes that it satisfies my desire, but it never does, or at best the satisfaction is fleeting. Back to the grindstone for another 30 years, with only the odd weekend or semi-annual Disneyland vacation with the kids to keep your morale up.

Similarly, I've always been a dreamer, and a bit of a hopeless romantic. I've considered leaving my high-tech life to go live in a cabin in the woods without electricity. I've considered becoming Amish. I've considered becoming a blacksmith. None of these seemed particularly feasible because I couldn't make enough of an income for the associated costs, or I don't have the skills, or I'm not religious in the slightest, and an isolated land-locked life in a cabin seems like something I probably just don't have the skills to survive.

I've also always wanted to travel, because there's so much more to the world than my little corner of America. I have my SCUBA certification. I joined the military in hopes of travel (and did little of it). I have a travel-focused credit card, an active passport, my Global Entry card, brand new vehicles and a full tank of gas - and I'm still essentially unable to do any traveling. Weekend trips in the car, not the week-long European excursions I'd love to do. The trappings of modern society prevent it. We have the money - but we don't have the time.

I only discovered "cruisers" about a month ago. Since then it's all I can think about. It seems like an alternative win condition to life. You can retire early, do all the traveling you want, enjoy the best part of your life while you're young enough to do so, rather than waiting until your "golden years" to do what you want to do. I've watched too many people work until the day they die. Terribly depressing.

So what's the hold up? Build a budget! Start saving! Just do it! Well, I want to make sure I study this from all angles. I might be over-analyzing, but I want to try to understand the realities of the daily grind as a cruiser. I'm sure everyone who goes home after their Hawaiian vacation wants to pack up and buy a house there, until they realize that working and living in Hawaii is an entirely different animal than vacationing in Hawaii. Similarly, of course I would need to charter a boat a few times at least. I would need to take courses to learn how to sail, how to operate a radio, basic electronics courses for solar and battery maintenance, small engine repair, carpentry, etc. etc. I don't even know how to tie a good knot.

But there's a nagging feeling that I will never understand what it means to live on a boat day in and day out until I actually do it for an extended length of time. How much will I actually care about: showering with a bucket? visas and paperwork for entering countries? The possibility of crime? Exchange rates, language barriers, culture shock? Claustrophobia? Strict budgeting? Working on the generator or the outboard or the rigging or the rudder or all of it at once in the cold, the rain, when I'm tired, and frustrated? I have an easy life now - one that I don't particularly enjoy, but easy. I have an office job. I have a California king. I have a water softener and a big hot water heater. I have a huge, expensive, comfortable couch that I lounge on to watch my huge TV with every movie in the world. I have stable, fast Internet. Creature comforts that I now have and will continue to get used to using, and if I make the leap into cruising, there's no turning back. I would sell my house and all my assets and live off the interest of my investments after dumping capital into my boat purchase.

So I want to jump in head-first, save money and prepare for the next 10-15 years and then leave it all behind and just GO, assuming that my wife actually wants to do it as well. She's supportive, but I'm not convinced that her heart is in it, and this is one of the biggest areas of concern but outside the scope of the forum so largely omitted here. Cruising is the only prospect that has actually given me hope and a sense of purpose of any possible reality that I can envision for myself. I just don't want to get there and realize I've made a mistake because I didn't fully understand the situation.

Here's the kind of setup I'm considering at this infancy stage of planning:

30-45ft catamaran up to $100k-ish (Wife would do better with more open space and less rocking)
$1500-2000+ budget per month
No assets and no debts on land
Would like the possibility of passages as I'd be in it for... 20+ years?

Now I understand there will be points of contention ("The gemini 105mc is too small for passages! Cats aren't built for passages! Fiberglass is crap, it's going to deteriorate away! An old cat on that budget won't last that long!") and those are what I'm here to hear. Tell me I'm an idiot for assuming I can plan the rest of my life doing something I know nothing about. Tell me I'm an idiot for thinking my setup is realistic. Tell me I'm just like everyone else who dreams of becoming a cruiser and never does because of X or Y or both. Or tell me that you were just like me and did it and have no regrets because the positives outweighed the negatives.

TL;DR Do you think a significant portion of dreamers and romanticizers end up disillusioned with liveaboard sailing and call their trip short or forgo it altogether?

Given that you're contemplating a huge jump from the comforts of suburbia to a live aboard sail boat a catamaran would be the logical choice. I'd up my budget to at least $300,000 as you'll need something nice to keep the family happy - no project boats. Something in the 45' to 50' range would give you enough space for some creature comforts like a dishwasher and washer/dryer combo. SWHMBO is not going to be happy with a caveman existence. Obviously the first step would be to do some chartering with a hired captain (many of these guys are more than happy to teach greenhorns the ropes) And if it turns out you hate sailing and living on a boat, this whole question becomes moot - but at least you'll know. Going sailing on other people's boats is also a good strategy but being landlocked, you won't have access to this option. The Caribbean is the logical choice for many people to start, just don't forget the A/C. You may have to fry some Barney but it'll be worth on a hot windless night.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by TheDoubleDeuce

I know nothing. I've never even been on a sailboat, live in a land-locked state, and at least 10 years out from the budget to be able to do anything I propose. Regardless, I will do my best to rant and rave for a bit, so I will put a TL;DR at the bottom for anyone who isn't interested.

I've always felt like the 9-5 is a trap. So many of us spend the majority of our lives doing something we would rather not do (work) to buy things that enable us to keep working, while (at least in America) the housing market and education costs have gone haywire, resulting in an average quality of life much lower than it was 50 years ago. The work/life balance has shifted unfavorably, and I don't have anything to complain about (I'm incredibly privileged) but I am complaining anyway because we can find a way to be discontent with anything. I think humans are defined by our suffering and therefore seek it out subconsciously in all situations. I constantly fall victim to the allure of retail therapy - since my life (aside from raising my kids and spending time with my wife) doesn't seem to have any significant purpose for me as an individual, I feel unfulfilled and tend toward escapism. Surprise, having 3 vehicles, an expensive motorcycle, an 82" tv, a new Macbook, all the latest movies, tv shows, books... they're not fulfilling in the long term. They're a temporary escape that brings reality crashing down again as soon as the credits roll. I'm trying to fill a void that can't be filled with gadgets, and the prospect of working 9-5 for another 30 years invokes a kind of hopeless despair. But that's "just what people do" right? You HAVE to work, right? Be a good member of society! Put your nose to the grindstone!

In short, I'm always looking forward to the next thing (vacation, purchase, celebration) in hopes that it satisfies my desire, but it never does, or at best the satisfaction is fleeting. Back to the grindstone for another 30 years, with only the odd weekend or semi-annual Disneyland vacation with the kids to keep your morale up.

Similarly, I've always been a dreamer, and a bit of a hopeless romantic. I've considered leaving my high-tech life to go live in a cabin in the woods without electricity. I've considered becoming Amish. I've considered becoming a blacksmith. None of these seemed particularly feasible because I couldn't make enough of an income for the associated costs, or I don't have the skills, or I'm not religious in the slightest, and an isolated land-locked life in a cabin seems like something I probably just don't have the skills to survive.

I've also always wanted to travel, because there's so much more to the world than my little corner of America. I have my SCUBA certification. I joined the military in hopes of travel (and did little of it). I have a travel-focused credit card, an active passport, my Global Entry card, brand new vehicles and a full tank of gas - and I'm still essentially unable to do any traveling. Weekend trips in the car, not the week-long European excursions I'd love to do. The trappings of modern society prevent it. We have the money - but we don't have the time.

I only discovered "cruisers" about a month ago. Since then it's all I can think about. It seems like an alternative win condition to life. You can retire early, do all the traveling you want, enjoy the best part of your life while you're young enough to do so, rather than waiting until your "golden years" to do what you want to do. I've watched too many people work until the day they die. Terribly depressing.

So what's the hold up? Build a budget! Start saving! Just do it! Well, I want to make sure I study this from all angles. I might be over-analyzing, but I want to try to understand the realities of the daily grind as a cruiser. I'm sure everyone who goes home after their Hawaiian vacation wants to pack up and buy a house there, until they realize that working and living in Hawaii is an entirely different animal than vacationing in Hawaii. Similarly, of course I would need to charter a boat a few times at least. I would need to take courses to learn how to sail, how to operate a radio, basic electronics courses for solar and battery maintenance, small engine repair, carpentry, etc. etc. I don't even know how to tie a good knot.

But there's a nagging feeling that I will never understand what it means to live on a boat day in and day out until I actually do it for an extended length of time. How much will I actually care about: showering with a bucket? visas and paperwork for entering countries? The possibility of crime? Exchange rates, language barriers, culture shock? Claustrophobia? Strict budgeting? Working on the generator or the outboard or the rigging or the rudder or all of it at once in the cold, the rain, when I'm tired, and frustrated? I have an easy life now - one that I don't particularly enjoy, but easy. I have an office job. I have a California king. I have a water softener and a big hot water heater. I have a huge, expensive, comfortable couch that I lounge on to watch my huge TV with every movie in the world. I have stable, fast Internet. Creature comforts that I now have and will continue to get used to using, and if I make the leap into cruising, there's no turning back. I would sell my house and all my assets and live off the interest of my investments after dumping capital into my boat purchase.

So I want to jump in head-first, save money and prepare for the next 10-15 years and then leave it all behind and just GO, assuming that my wife actually wants to do it as well. She's supportive, but I'm not convinced that her heart is in it, and this is one of the biggest areas of concern but outside the scope of the forum so largely omitted here. Cruising is the only prospect that has actually given me hope and a sense of purpose of any possible reality that I can envision for myself. I just don't want to get there and realize I've made a mistake because I didn't fully understand the situation.

Here's the kind of setup I'm considering at this infancy stage of planning:

30-45ft catamaran up to $100k-ish (Wife would do better with more open space and less rocking)
$1500-2000+ budget per month
No assets and no debts on land
Would like the possibility of passages as I'd be in it for... 20+ years?

Now I understand there will be points of contention ("The gemini 105mc is too small for passages! Cats aren't built for passages! Fiberglass is crap, it's going to deteriorate away! An old cat on that budget won't last that long!") and those are what I'm here to hear. Tell me I'm an idiot for assuming I can plan the rest of my life doing something I know nothing about. Tell me I'm an idiot for thinking my setup is realistic. Tell me I'm just like everyone else who dreams of becoming a cruiser and never does because of X or Y or both. Or tell me that you were just like me and did it and have no regrets because the positives outweighed the negatives.

TL;DR Do you think a significant portion of dreamers and romanticizers end up disillusioned with liveaboard sailing and call their trip short or forgo it altogether?

Goodness. I got depressed just reading your post...didn't really finish it. You need to do something now...take some action! Don't wait 20 years to try it only to find out you don't enjoy it...not everyone does.

I started with a 22' sloop in 1979 and taught myself how to sail on San Pablo Bay, CA...one mistake at a time and fell in love with it. Took my family to Coast Guard Auxiliary boating lessons and they never finished, I did. Eventually they stopped sailing and I sailed solo more and more and enjoyed it. (My ex fell in love with the IDEA of sailing but not sailing itself, a common error.) I continue to read most everything I can on the subject and I'm still still learning even after roundtrips to Hawaii and Alaska.

If you are not willing to take action on your depression now then sailing is not the answer. Starting small is not that expensive and you have been spending money on all that other crap anyway, you need to prioritize. Your just making excuses...perhaps you would be best advised to a therapist, I did and it did wonders for me.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

By far the hardest part of making the change from just boating as a hobby/sport to cruising is learning to slow down and be ok and happy about it.

I just spent 2 weeks anchored on a weather hold. Nothing to but go to the same beach, read, play card games with my wife. In the evenings maybe the internet would be enough to watch a movie.

Can you see yourself being to be happy doing this because it isnt an uncommn event?

You're supposed to be telling him about the joys of cavorting around with your fellow boat scum

[Artdews]

Cruising is a great adventure. It forces you to keep your mind active and your body healthy and will probably extend your life because of this.
Also, my wife and I have found one of the most rewarding aspects of this nomadic life are the people we have met as they have enriched our lives maybe even more than the places we have visited and we have visited some wonderful places!
To wet your appetite try looking at a few YouTube channels. One I will recommend is WeSail. (Wesail.world is their website, wesail.world@gmail.com, OR youtube is just WEsail!) These guys quite often take couples who just want to try the cruising life on a cat for a few days or so. They also started from the same view point you have described and they have no intention of going back.
Make the jump... I'm sure you will not regret it....just don't leave it too late.