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28-12-2017, 03:33
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#76
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,616
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier
The whole mono cat thing is alive and we'll only on cruisers forum. In the real world rarely does it raise its ugly head.
Once this year at a dinner with yachties I had one guy keep referring to my boat as "half boat" it got tiresome, I just ignored him. In eight years I can remember only three comments, most of us just don't care!
I have four cats next to me right now, we are all just yachties and no prejudice exists.
Ego's are hilarious, specially considering most here are grown men.
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You sure it's ego's.. and not personal insecurities..
__________________
You can't beat a people up (for 75yrs+) and have them say..
"I Love You.. ". Murray Roman.
Yet the 'useful idiots' still dance to the beat of the drums.
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28-12-2017, 04:32
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#77
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2016
Boat: Bathtub
Posts: 889
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
I've known your boat since the early 90's and the previous owners have been friends of the family since the early 80's when they and my parents were restoring tall ships together. The namesake of your boat the "Barry Duckworth" was also friends of the family before he tragically lost his life in the sinking of the tall ship Pride Of Baltimore. I know the previous owners of your boat had a lot of respect for Multihull's and their seaworthiness and had talked to me about purchasing an F-27 or 31 after selling their HR-35. He was amazed at the sailing performance. The BD is a good 4 to maybe 5 kts boat on a really good day so would probably be no match in performance to any cattlemaran as you put it. She is a good sea boat as plenty of multis are as well. I don't see you as being very experienced and your attitude towards other seagoing vessels to me is disgusting considering the boat you now have to live up to.
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Wow, someone really either doesn't have any sense of humor at all, or doesn't like to allow other people to even express any opinions that might differ from or challenge their own. I'm sorry you feel that way.
Call me "inexperienced" if you like. No skin off of me. I've sailed on cats quite a bit. Even to Cuba and back as a mate on charter runs and a few gulf crossings. I don't enjoy being on them even when I'm getting paid. They aren't for me. I'm a sailor not a truck driver, so unless I'm getting a decent rate/mile deposited into my bank account for the "job" I'll be driving a leany-boat for pleasure and living a pleasant lifestyle. Your mileage may vary. Wouldn't the world be a boring place if everyone liked the same kinds of things?
And finally, if you think 4-5kts on a "good day" is all we do then keep on believing whatever you want. Or maybe look on marinetraffic.com and see the real truth. The GPS in the AIS doesn't lie.
That's all I have to say about that...
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28-12-2017, 11:46
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#78
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by daletournier
The whole mono cat thing is alive and we'll only on cruisers forum. In the real world rarely does it raise its ugly head.
Once this year at a dinner with yachties I had one guy keep referring to my boat as "half boat" it got tiresome, I just ignored him. In eight years I can remember only three comments, most of us just don't care!
I have four cats next to me right now, we are all just yachties and no prejudice exists.
Ego's are hilarious, specially considering most here are grown men.
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That's because you own a mono, and cat owners rarely denigrate monos, and usually only in jest.
But the fact is, plenty of mono owners will denigrate cats, calling them rafts, unseaworthy, ugly etc,etc etc. We've had plenty telling us cats can't cross oceans, can't sail, especially to windward.... all the usual garbage.
There are even people making YouTube videos spouting innacurate garbage about cats.
And just in time, some bozo calling them trucks....
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"
John McEnroe
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28-12-2017, 11:55
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#79
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Mono vs cat. Its almost as bad as another for and against that is commonly on here this time of year.
That being said if I went back to multi hull it would be another cruising tri. ( imho the best of both combined into one )
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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28-12-2017, 12:02
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#80
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,985
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
That's because you own a mono, and cat owners rarely denigrate monos, and usually only in jest.
But the fact is, plenty of mono owners will denigrate cats, calling them rafts, unseaworthy, ugly etc,etc etc. We've had plenty telling us cats can't cross oceans, can't sail, especially to windward.... all the usual garbage.
There are even people making YouTube videos spouting innacurate garbage about cats.
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Happy New Year. Lots of Cat guys spout all sorts of unsubstantiated crap about mono hulls, to the point of being ignorant so can't get in your corner about being in jest.
That aside Cats are very popular and it's easy to see why, lots of very cool features that a segment of the cruising community has really embraced. There are guys that like older designed monos compared to the newer designed ones and they are always opinionated. There are the full keel guys that dont like fin keels and they arent shy about it. The list goes on but in the end every one makes a choice and then often like a religion they look for people of their tribe to hang out with on forums and even lots of coastal and interisland cruisers. Because the ranks are much thinner in the offshore cruisers that's where you'll find that cruisers don't give a damn what you sail, big, little,short keel long keel cat or mono everyone is just out having a good time and enjoying each other's company. Insecure people have a very strong need to have others embrace their decisions and 90% of the time it's those insecurities that are behind the silly stuff that gets spouted off, just see it that way and move on.
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28-12-2017, 12:50
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#81
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2016
Boat: Bathtub
Posts: 889
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor
Insecure people have a very strong need to have others embrace their decisions and 90% of the time it's those insecurities that are behind the silly stuff that gets spouted off, just see it that way and move on.
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It might be that when someone just spent 4-10 times as much for their particular decision over the "half-boat" alternatives that the need not to have been "wrong" becomes much more pressing to the fragile ego. Then again, not everyone is poor like us. We had the budget for a cruising boat in the same price range as an off-lease used Camry. A cat was never in our grasp even if we really liked sailing them. We didn't have a spare quarter million laying around for a decent bluewater-capable cruising cat.
*I love the term "half-boat" although maybe quarter or "tenth-boat" might be more inline with the realities of budgeting here. Just lop a zero off the end of the price tag on that cruising cat We might just be the trailer trash of the bluewater crowd
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28-12-2017, 13:13
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#82
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,985
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeron
It might be that when someone just spent 4-10 times as much for their particular decision over the "half-boat" alternatives that the need not to have been "wrong" becomes much more pressing to the fragile ego. Then again, not everyone is poor like us. We had the budget for a cruising boat in the same price range as an off-lease used Camry. A cat was never in our grasp even if we really liked sailing them. We didn't have a spare quarter million laying around for a decent bluewater-capable cruising cat.
*I love the term "half-boat" although maybe quarter or "tenth-boat" might be more inline with the realities of budgeting here. Just lop a zero off the end of the price tag on that cruising cat We might just be the trailer trash of the bluewater crowd
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The blue water crowd we hung out with over the years never had trailer trash It takes a different set of balls to be crossing oceans in smaller and simple boats. We always observed that cruisers on the smaller boats were having more fun. Further more at 35 feet you were certainly not the smallest..Lots of boats out there below 30 feet. One couple we met were sailing a 26 foot old woody and 30+ days between Mexico and the Marquesas is a long time in something the size of a phone booth. That's one of the beautiful things about this type of cruising, everyone is judged by who they are, not what they own or the size of their wallet.
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28-12-2017, 13:22
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#83
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,616
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor
The blue water crowd we hung out with over the years never had trailer trash It takes a different set of balls to be crossing oceans in smaller and simple boats. We always observed that cruisers on the smaller boats were having more fun. Further more at 35 feet you were certainly not the smallest..Lots of boats out there below 30 feet. One couple we met were sailing a 26 foot old woody and 30+ days between Mexico and the Marquesas is a long time in something the size of a phone booth. That's one of the beautiful things about this type of cruising, everyone is judged by who they are, not what they own or the size of their wallet.
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To True Blue...!!!
But there'll always be the odd one calling us trash and/or on the bum for free food and beer.
Funny thing is.. it's usually the guys owning the big boats who slide away and leave me with the bill at the end of the night..
Ahh..!!! Shelter Bay.. I remember it well..
__________________
You can't beat a people up (for 75yrs+) and have them say..
"I Love You.. ". Murray Roman.
Yet the 'useful idiots' still dance to the beat of the drums.
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28-12-2017, 13:30
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#84
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2016
Boat: Bathtub
Posts: 889
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
When we were budgeting the realities of retiring at age 50 or so and living indefinitely on what we had saved so far we did a lot of research on that sweet spot of having enough room for water/fuel/food/supplies for extended crossings, yet still being cheap enough to operate/maintain/marina/haul/etc with the Bubba Budget, and every time we crunched the numbers when the 35' mark was crossed the cost curve turned skywards at an appreciative rate.
I wanted to go with a 30'-er maybe, but the wife really wanted a second enclosed cabin for guests/extra crew for longer passages. I understand that 2 can be a tough number for extended crossings, especially early on. We aren't as salty as the former owner who single-handed our boat across the Atlantic 5 years ago. Perhaps we never will be. A 30'-er would be so much easier to handle short and single-handed day in and day on in all weather conditions. I've spent a lot of time on 30 sailboats and the difference between one of those and a 35' full-keeler is significant as days pile up and exhaustion sets in. Jumping to 40 is another quantum leap. Not just in the effort needed to sail her, but to budget and maintain every step of the way everything considered. We'd have to both work another 5-6 years to afford a 40'-er rather than leaving now on a 35. That was a no-brainer to us.
The curve levels out fairly quickly though in reverse when one goes from a 35 to 30 foot boat. There is still quite a bit of savings but significant diminishing returns for what needs to be given up to get there, and water/fuel tankage is the thing that suffers the most it seems -along with that guest cabin.
But here we are squeezing nickles and dimes to chase a beer budget dream, while the bluewater cats are bleeding Benjamins out the wazoo on a caviar diet. It's all relative.
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28-12-2017, 13:37
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#85
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,271
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Plenty of budget blue water catamarans, and plenty of catamaran owners who are on a beer budget.
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28-12-2017, 13:44
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#86
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,159
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeron
When we were budgeting the realities of retiring at age 50 or so and living indefinitely on what we had saved so far we did a lot of research on that sweet spot of having enough room for water/fuel/food/supplies for extended crossings, yet still being cheap enough to operate/maintain/marina/haul/etc with the Bubba Budget, and every time we crunched the numbers when the 35' mark was crossed the cost curve turned skywards at an appreciative rate.
I wanted to go with a 30'-er maybe, but the wife really wanted a second enclosed cabin for guests/extra crew for longer passages. I understand that 2 can be a tough number for extended crossings, especially early on. We aren't as salty as the former owner who single-handed our boat across the Atlantic 5 years ago. Perhaps we never will be. A 30'-er would be so much easier to handle short and single-handed day in and day on in all weather conditions. I've spent a lot of time on 30 sailboats and the difference between one of those and a 35' full-keeler is significant as days pile up and exhaustion sets in. Jumping to 40 is another quantum leap. Not just in the effort needed to sail her, but to budget and maintain every step of the way everything considered. We'd have to both work another 5-6 years to afford a 40'-er rather than leaving now on a 35. That was a no-brainer to us.
The curve levels out fairly quickly though in reverse when one goes from a 35 to 30 foot boat. There is still quite a bit of savings but significant diminishing returns for what needs to be given up to get there, and water/fuel tankage is the thing that suffers the most it seems -along with that guest cabin.
But here we are squeezing nickles and dimes to chase a beer budget dream, while the bluewater cats are bleeding Benjamins out the wazoo on a caviar diet. It's all relative.
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sounds a lot like me. That is the reason I'm in a 29. Its the costs. I fit in a 30 ft slip but up it to 31ft and you pay for 40 ft slip. Seems the price for a haul out goes up significantly to.
As far as singlehanding I don't notice a significant difference between my 24 and my former 42. That is more how its setup .
Edit:
Local yard charges for haul out rt and pressure wash up to 29 ft is 10 bucks a ft. From 30 to 40 is. 10.50 a ft and over 40 to 50ft is 11 a ft
So 290 for me. And at 30 ft it is an extra 15 bucks. May not sound like much but that would equal 5 gallons of diesel . ( enough to run my furnace for the winter.)
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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28-12-2017, 13:56
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#87
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
[QUOTE=robert sailor;2544246]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
That's because you own a mono, and cat owners rarely denigrate monos, and usually only in jest.
But the fact is, plenty of mono owners will denigrate cats, calling them rafts, unseaworthy, ugly etc,etc etc. We've had plenty telling us cats can't cross oceans, can't sail, especially to windward.... all the usual garbage.
There are even people making YouTube videos spouting innacurate garbage about cats.[/QUOTE
Happy New Year. Lots of Cat guys spout all sorts of unsubstantiated crap about mono hulls, to the point of being ignorant so can't get in your corner about being in jest.
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On forums, maybe. Have you had that happen face to face?
Daletournier has had it happen once. We get it several times a year.
On forums it's pretty much non stop.
I suggest you look at the monohull forum here, and see how often you get cat guys putting **** on monos. Then look at the multihull forum....
I agree it's probably driven by insecurities. Sour grapes syndrome. "I couldn't afford one, so they're garbage.."
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"
John McEnroe
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28-12-2017, 13:56
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#88
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,985
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Plenty of budget blue water catamarans, and plenty of catamaran owners who are on a beer budget.
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I think plenty might be pushing the boundaries of reality but to be fair we did meet one couple on a 30 foot Cat overloaded to the balls that crossed the Atlantic around the same time as us. We sailed loosely in their company for a bit and their average speed was around 4 knots. I was impressed with the room and layout on the boat and they were having a ball.
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28-12-2017, 13:58
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#89
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 7,271
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor
I think plenty might be pushing the boundaries of reality but to be fair we did meet one couple on a 30 foot Cat overloaded to the balls that crossed the Atlantic around the same time as us. We sailed loosely in their company for a bit and their average speed was around 4 knots. I was impressed with the room and layout on the boat and they were having a ball.
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Plenty of older Prouts out there for the budget cruiser.
Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
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28-12-2017, 14:00
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#90
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2016
Boat: Bathtub
Posts: 889
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Re: Ocean Crossing around the world are best in Monohull or Catamaran???
Quote:
Originally Posted by smj
Plenty of budget blue water catamarans, and plenty of catamaran owners who are on a beer budget.
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Depends on the brand of beer. This beer budget only covers the cans with the black "BEER" lettering on the white can.
So far with the cost of the boat, OTR transport from the East coast to Great Lakes, 2 years mooring fees, 2 years hard storage, complete refit (including bottom strip and bottom-up) repower, complete electrical/plumbing strip & rebuild with all new, complete electronics upgrade to NMEA-2K gear, and a lot of other upgrades/updates too numerous to mention including interior cushions, countertops, headliner, etc) we are just poking our noses over the $50k line before getting ready to head out full time this spring.
Show me any legitimate bluewater multihull that is ready to go at the level we have prepped our boat with the same capabilities anywhere near that price level. I'm really interested.
I'm looking up and down the Mahina Expeditions list of multihulls and I'm just not seeing it. School me.
Mahina Expeditions - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising
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