Now What . . if Anything ?

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

If everyone is trussed up like a turkey in bright orange kapok the sailing becomes un-fun.

If its a 'normal' day out the chance of misadventure is so low that doing a full man overboard drill is just not relevant. Last time I was on a cruise ship they didnt even do if for passengers going for less than a week.

This whole over safety pervading stuff we sometimes see here is a bit much imho. Go and enjoy life on a boat and if you or your friend dies then stiff biccies. Do better in your next life.

If you come on my boat for the 3 hour cruise you are welcome to put on a life jacket.... but if you want safety drills go sit below or stay on the dock.

At last... a breath of normality. This was starting to sound like OH&S jamboree.

I take friends/guests out for an enjoyable experience. If they've sailed before we might push the envelope... a little. If not, my role is to make it look easy and fun, and I've done my bit if I can drop them off with a little more colour from the wind and the sun...... ok, and the wine, and with them feeling like they'd like to do it all again.

Sometimes if conditions are a bit lively, it's meant going out with just 25% of the Genny unfurled so they get to 'sail', lunch on the hook in a sheltered anchorage, and coming back on the engine. It's no big deal if you're not trying to be a hero.

Vic

Bash... to your post too.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

In a year of cruising we had several nasty incidents:

1. taking on (a sh** load of) water 1000 miles from land
2. multiple halyard failures resulting in pulling sails from the sea in the middle of the ocean & several mast-climbs in the mid-Atlantic swell
3. engine fire
4. boarded by refugees
5. death of skipper
6. tangled in fishing nets 10 days from land
7. total loss of rudder 300 miles off Fiji

.

You can beg and plead all you like.... you're NOT coming on my boat.... you... and Jonah.

[YourOldNemesis]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

They're long ocean passages, not a drift around the bay. I think there are different standards of safety, and care because of the different risks invoilved.
The OP was not on an over nighter where someone would be on deck by themselves etc. His was a short cruise.
"Today, they invited us out for a short cruise, and we (I) preferred to enjoy one last sail. We compromised by going with them for a short motor jaunt around the area, and then they came over for a short sail."

Its not necessary to make the sport hideously difficult for guests.



But, for those longer cruises, yes, I agree, however still not making it an all pervading misery. If it becomes that it would be better to hook the van up and go for a driving vacation.




Mark

Of course, silly me, I forget that 5 miles off shore is a much safer place to fall overboard unconscious than 1000 miles offshore!

How does wearing a lifejacket (especially one of the self-inflating ones) make it an 'all pervading misery'?

[YourOldNemesis]

Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond

You can beg and plead all you like.... you're NOT coming on my boat.... you... and Jonah.

Thanks, that's an interesting outlook. All the skippers that we had took the opposite view: would you rather have someone on board who had dealt with all these things or someone who had just walked out of a classroom? Isn't that what we call 'experience'?

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

Thanks, that's an interesting outlook. All the skippers that we had took the opposite view: would you rather have someone on board who had dealt with all these things or someone who had just walked out of a classroom? Isn't that what we call 'experience'?

I think experience is great, and you've collected more than most in a year. But you're bordering on 'jinxed', and I'd rather not add to your portfolio of experience at my expense... if that's ok with you

I'll stick to common sense and the devil's own luck... 62 years and it's stilll working for me.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

How does wearing a lifejacket (especially one of the self-inflating ones) make it an 'all pervading misery'?

Ramping up the safety precautions unnecessarily just makes the crew jaded, unbelieveing when there is a real need, and, somewhere in between their respect for the captain will deminish because they think he can't do a risk appreciation.

I am not sure when you are going to jump out of the cake and yell 'April fool' but if your ideas are as posted then I think you're probably more dangerous than safe.

Yes, its fine to exit a persons boat you feel unsafe on, I have done that, but also I would get rid of crew that over plays risk.

[YourOldNemesis]

MarkJ, surprised by that view, I suspect that most of the people here have only sailed with/for themselves, without external intervention the attitude tends to go: 'well it hasn't killed me yet, so I'll keep doing it this way'. My experience has been crossing both the Atlantic and Pacific on several different yachts for several different skippers each with their own good points and bad points. This gives the attentive crew-member a lot of opportunity to learn what's good and what's bad, what works and what doesn't. The last guy we crewed for knew our history and was constantly asking how other people did things on their boats compared to how he did them. He was a good skipper and he was able to lead whilst being humble enough to realize that there might be better ways of doing things.

The rules I have listed for lifejacket-wearing have been the same on almost all the ocean passages I have made on various different yachts, they're also in line with the safety training that comes with the RYA yachtmaster certificate and were enforced by the RN and RNLI skipper who I crossed part of the Atlantic and the Pacific with.

[boatman61]

I have friends who lock all the doors in the car before starting out.. even a short drive into town... to me that's crazy...
Others have multi alarm systems and triple locks etc in their homes...
I even know someone who's been 'Setting Off' for nearly 5yrs now... he just keeps putting it of because something new has come out "That'll make it Safer" out there...
Safety is all well and good but it needs to be kept in proportion... and one also has to learn to deal with other folks foibles/paranoia's...
I'm considered by many to be somewhat Blaise as I don't use a PDF, Lifelines/harness but then I move quickly and have the golden rule...
"One hand for me... the other for the Boat"
As Virtual says... 62yrs and still going strong.... it works for me... when the body starts to fail... maybe I'll change...lol
Just find what works best for you...

[tanksalot]

What I see happening is a "lifestyle/culture clash", similar to that of my friends and I. It's not just about lifejackets, it's how we live our lives. I bought my first sailboat knowing essentially NOTHING about sailboats. I didn't know if it was diesel or gas. But when I got that Atomic 4 fired up the first time, the experience was ORGASMIC! I could have lit Las Vegas with my grin.

Our friends, on the other hand, research, research and research. They're not "emotional" in their behavior, but analytical. Their boat is spotless. Orderly, meticulous. Their clothes are spotless. I'd bet their bank accounts are balanced to the penny.

I'm envious. I resent my clutter, both the physical stuff and the cerebral stuff. BUT, my life has been filled with glorious moments that excessive caution and planning would have precluded. Spontaneity has its' benefits.

The "person I am" is not something I can change. The challenge for me is to accept the guest's behavior without taking offense. I'll bet one of the reasons we're good friends is that in some way they admire my adventuresomeness. Just as I admire their control and precision. But, I can't be more cautious without, in some way, sacrificing some of my identity. And, conversely, they can't be more relaxed and adventuresome. Not to take that as a personal affront is the challenge.

I do, however, agree that in THESE particular circumstances, low-profile pfd's for all passengers would have been reasonable and would not have compromised the pleasure of the trip.

[Ex-Calif]

Skipper's boat, skipper's rules.

I have only been on one boat where the skipper required pfd's for a day sail. I graciously wore a foam block PITA pfd which cramped my style all day. It was his boat and I had not brought my inflatable.

I personally choose not to sail with this guy. I like him but find him pedantic.

Personal safety, personal choice. If anyone wants to wear a pfd on my boat they are allowed. I tell guests that they are available but not required during my brief. I have 2 low profile dinghy vests and one inflatable available which are comfortable. The remaining 6 are foam block types.

I have had many non-swimmers choose to wear.

I certainly don't take offense at my skippering skills as a result.