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07-03-2019, 07:53
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
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Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
I recently read about the cruise liner, Norwegian Escape, experiencing a "rogue" 115 mph wind that tilted the boat 45 degrees. There were several reports of 90 mph+ gusts along the coast from Virginia to Delaware. Winds were 30-40 mph but I'm not sure if it took seconds or minutes to get to 115 mph though.
Obviously, this much wind could easily capsize/broach any sailboat that wasn't prepared for it.
My question is:
How common are gusts like this? If common, how do you prevent capsizing or broaching (aside from the obvious of avoiding sailing in 30-40 mph winds)?
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07-03-2019, 08:05
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#2
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,585
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell
I recently read about the cruise liner, Norwegian Escape, experiencing a "rogue" 115 mph wind that tilted the boat 45 degrees. There were several reports of 90 mph+ gusts along the coast from Virginia to Delaware. Winds were 30-40 mph but I'm not sure if it took seconds or minutes to get to 115 mph though.
Obviously, this much wind could easily capsize/broach any sailboat that wasn't prepared for it.
My question is:
How common are gusts like this? If common, how do you prevent capsizing or broaching (aside from the obvious of avoiding sailing in 30-40 mph winds)?
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30 to 40mph is no big deal.. thats 25 to 30 kts and only a problem for <8m in a seaway..anything 10>m should manage comfortably reefed down to suit.
I have been knocked down in the same area by this type of 'out off nowhere' wind once.. dont think its that common else there would be more events.. its the only time its happened to me flat calm to 50+ knots in seconds.. 10 to 20 mins I'm more used to..
__________________
It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
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07-03-2019, 08:32
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#3
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Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Boat: Sea Hunt 234 Ultra
Posts: 3,962
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Some reports says she listed only 10 degrees, but that was enough to send people and furniture flying..
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
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07-03-2019, 09:24
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Some reports says she listed only 10 degrees, but that was enough to send people and furniture flying..
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This looks like more than 10 but less than 30:
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07-03-2019, 09:30
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 365
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPCampbell
This looks like more than 10 but less than 30:
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if the camera is level...
I can take (fake) that picture on level ground (except for the water in the pool). The water in the pool is either not settled, or the ship is tilting a bit more than 10deg
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07-03-2019, 09:39
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Southern MD, Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catalina & Maycraft
Posts: 996
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
I believe Eric Forsyth, on a 42' Westsail "Fiona," had a very similar experience halfway between Bermuda and NY. A sudden 100 knot microburst came out of the blue and dismasted him. He has some great videos on YT by the way, and also discusses the dismasting. I don't know him personally.
Also, something similar was reported to be the sinking of the original "Pride of Baltimore" north of Puerto Rico.
It seems to always be a possibility, but fortunately rare.
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07-03-2019, 12:54
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61
30 to 40mph is no big deal.. thats 25 to 30 kts and only a problem for m should manage comfortably reefed down to suit.
I have been knocked down in the same area by this type of 'out off nowhere' wind once.. dont think its that common else there would be more events.. its the only time its happened to me flat calm to 50+ knots in seconds.. 10 to 20 mins I'm more used to..
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Four years or so ago on a moonless night just North of the Dry Tortugas were were almost knocked down in a sudden gust to 50+ kts, I saw the wind meter at 50. Had every inch of sails up.
However we had warning, but I was stupid and didn’t realize it until later, it was July and HOT, but we got good wind and a cool breeze, you know the kind you get from an approaching Thunderstorm?
I was so tired and I’m claiming just stupid and didn’t put two and two together.
There was no lightning. I say now almost knocked down, cause I’ve never been knocked down before, the Genoa was laying in the water though. At the time I thought we were knocked completely down, now I’m not so sure, I think maybe 60 degrees max?
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07-03-2019, 13:12
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,809
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
I remember being knocked down pretty much flat when a sudden 60kt gust hit us side-on while we were just pottering around with full sail up (in under 10kts) on Maiden in the Solent. So these things can happen anywhere, but they're rare.
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07-03-2019, 13:18
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: SAnta Cruz 27
Posts: 6,711
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
I would be a really bad day if you were on a catamaran. Fortunately its not very common.
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07-03-2019, 13:38
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#10
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
However a sudden 100 kt gust isn’t something that I have heard of before, and it had to be sustained for at least some time to heel that monster over.
Looked it up, bursts exceeding 100 mph have occurred.
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08-03-2019, 08:57
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal, Canada or St Maarten
Boat: Bavaria, 12.3m
Posts: 150
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
I got a sudden 80kts gust once, with full sails out. This was on the northern lee of St. Vincent, those you've been there know this mountain can trow really nasty gusts. I couldn't roll in the genoa, too much pressure. So I aimed downwind, at least reducing a bit the apparent wind, and using the main to shadow the genoa from the wind and I was able to roll it in.
__________________
Otia: Latin denominative plural for leisure, free time and peace
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08-03-2019, 08:58
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 564
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot
Four years or so ago on a moonless night just North of the Dry Tortugas were were almost knocked down in a sudden gust to 50+ kts, I saw the wind meter at 50. Had every inch of sails up.
However we had warning, but I was stupid and didn’t realize it until later, it was July and HOT, but we got good wind and a cool breeze, you know the kind you get from an approaching Thunderstorm?
I was so tired and I’m claiming just stupid and didn’t put two and two together.
There was no lightning. I say now almost knocked down, cause I’ve never been knocked down before, the Genoa was laying in the water though. At the time I thought we were knocked completely down, now I’m not so sure, I think maybe 60 degrees max?
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Interesting. This sounds like something I've just read about called a dry microburst.
If cold rain passes through a layer of dry warm air, the rain may completely evaporate. The evaporation will quickly cool the warm air mass and it will rush to the ground in a powerful downdraft. When it hits the ground it pushes out in all directions creating powerful horizontal winds with essentially no warning (other than it getting suddenly cooler).
I think there are actually a few phone apps that can detect this by measuring the rate of change in the phone's barometric pressure sensor.
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08-03-2019, 09:04
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Dry microburst would be extremely rare on the Ocean, usually a West Tx area kind of thing.
It’s actually rare but I have seen one in Kuwait, the dust on the ground blows out in a circular pattern. About what you would expect a bomb to do.
We got heavy rain right after the “knock down” and if I had been smart enough to be running the Radar, I feel sure I would have seen the rain coming, unless the burst was a result of the rain, meaning they came about the same time.
But I didn’t have the Radar on so I’ll never know I guess.
My boat took care of herself, she rounded up right as she began to stand back up, enabling us to use the sheet winch to furl the Genoa.
It was flapping so bad it sounded like gunshots and I was sure it was shredded, but even though it was an old sail, it had no damage, or very little.
Of course there is more to the story. As she laid on her side the Rocna on the bow came out of its stowed position and swung over and slammed into the hull point end first, making a sound that had me sure that we had lost a chain plate and the rig was coming down any second now.
Now I lash the anchors roll bar to the railing so if can’t come out.
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08-03-2019, 09:17
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Sausalito, CA
Boat: Alerion Express 28
Posts: 282
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Wasn't there a faux square rigger that was knocked down and sank with all hands back in the '90's.......The Spirit of Baltimore or something like that?
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08-03-2019, 09:33
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UK
Boat: Moody 37
Posts: 71
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Re: Norwegian Escape. How to handle gusts?
Similar to the dry microburst is the katabatic wind you can get off mountains near the sea. Sudden cooling of an evening sends a blast screaming down the side of the mountain and out onto the water. Common-ish around Greek Islands I believe.
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