No insurance, no survey - no survey, no insurance

[cyclepro]

Thank you for all the responses. I am waiting for BoatUS to get back to me: they have to check with their underwriters. I might have found a yard that is willing to haul my boat - checking it out today.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

"The poor person can just walk away"

Hmmm...how so? How does being poor make devistating loss of personal property easier than for someone of the middle class?

If we are talking about a lot of the south florida derelict boats, they are basically boats that should have been cut up and gone in the dumpster. They can often get them for little or in many cases nothing as it's cheaper to give them away rather than pay to have the cut up boat hauled away.

On the other hand a middle class couple, has probably invested a significant percentage of their net worth in a decent boat with resale value. To replace it, means they need to spend a significant percentage of their net worth.

Probably more importantly, the poor guy in the derelict boat likely doesn't even have a bank account. If he is found at fault, there is no money to take. The middle class retired guy likely has tens of thousands that could be taken in a civil case.

[valhalla360]

Unfortunate situation but the marinas have good reason.

I was talking to the owner of a small marina many years ago and he was ticked off. They hauled a boat and it crushed in the slings. Turns out the bulkhead were all rotten. The owner then blamed him and was demanding the marina cover it since he didn't have insurance.

Needless to say, the marina wanted to see everyones insurance after that or you were asked to leave.

[The Garbone]

Just go to Progressive online. For less than $200 a year they will give you minimum liability (you can use adjust things and instantly see the cost). Never had an issue with my C30 and even had 2 boats on one policy.

Once you sign up they have an online page that allows you to fax your proof of insurance info anyplace free, 2 minutes after getting the marina fax number it will be there.

Now collecting on a claim from Progressive, I have no idea, but it will get you in a Marina.

[Mithril Bham]

Find another yard. Have had one day haul outs for surveys a number of times. Never had a problem.

[Tkeeth]

I may be wrong, but wouldnt a 3rd party survey have their own insurance? When i hired to have a survey done, the yard never asked as the surveyor had made the appointment for haul out.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Tkeeth

I may be wrong, but wouldnt a 3rd party survey have their own insurance? When i hired to have a survey done, the yard never asked as the surveyor had made the appointment for haul out.

It does seem weird, although it's been a while since I had a survey, I don't ever remember a yard asking the insurance question for a half hour in the slings.....

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by cyclepro

My sailboat is for sale in Fort Lauderdale and I am running into challenges with regards to a survey for a prospective buyer. For the past 6 years I have been "self-insured" - I have been cruising in Central America.

Every Fort Lauderdale yard I contact for an out-of-the-water survey needs to see a certificate for both liability and hull insurance.

I contacted a couple of insurance companies but none of them is willing to write a short-term policy; plus, they want to have the boat surveyed before coverage can take place.

Is there anybody on this forum that can give me a solution or some solid advice?

What is this "self insured"? Is it the same as not insured?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Unfortunate situation but the marinas have good reason.

I was talking to the owner of a small marina many years ago and he was ticked off. They hauled a boat and it crushed in the slings. Turns out the bulkhead were all rotten. The owner then blamed him and was demanding the marina cover it since he didn't have insurance.

Needless to say, the marina wanted to see everyones insurance after that or you were asked to leave.

Interesting story.

No insurance wild have covered that event anyway though.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Unfortunate situation but the marinas have good reason.

I was talking to the owner of a small marina many years ago and he was ticked off. They hauled a boat and it crushed in the slings. Turns out the bulkhead were all rotten. The owner then blamed him and was demanding the marina cover it since he didn't have insurance.

Needless to say, the marina wanted to see everyones insurance after that or you were asked to leave.

This was very obviously a case of lack of due diligence on the part of the vessel owner, however rather than lumber every other boat owner needing a lift-out with an insurance requirement the marina owner should have a written agreement which specifies where each risk lies.

The purpose of insurance is to allow you to contract the costs of rectifying unmanageable risks to another party, unfortunately like a lot of old institutions these days it has been corrupted and perverted by dishonest people on both sides and is no longer trustworthy.

[CaptWil]

Originally Posted by The Garbone

Just go to Progressive online. For less than $200 a year they will give you minimum liability (you can use adjust things and instantly see the cost). Never had an issue with my C30 and even had 2 boats on one policy.

Once you sign up they have an online page that allows you to fax your proof of insurance info anyplace free, 2 minutes after getting the marina fax number it will be there.

Now collecting on a claim from Progressive, I have no idea, but it will get you in a Marina.

Did you see the exclusion/limitation policy...wow
No steel or wood
Boats 20 years + max cover USD40K
and the list goes on lol
RIP OFF
Will

[Dulcesuenos]

Have never had a yard ask for my insurance info and have hauled boats for surveys or repairs at least 6 times in 8 years on both sides of Florida,

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If we are talking about a lot of the south florida derelict boats, they are basically boats that should have been cut up and gone in the dumpster. They can often get them for little or in many cases nothing as it's cheaper to give them away rather than pay to have the cut up boat hauled away.

On the other hand a middle class couple, has probably invested a significant percentage of their net worth in a decent boat with resale value. To replace it, means they need to spend a significant percentage of their net worth.

Probably more importantly, the poor guy in the derelict boat likely doesn't even have a bank account. If he is found at fault, there is no money to take. The middle class retired guy likely has tens of thousands that could be taken in a civil case.

Thats a distiction of a totally different kind. I am poor and invested a significant amount of my net worth into my boat. My loss, despite my lower initial outlay than others may do, would result in significant devistation in my funds,dreams, and possibly future security.
I cant't just walk away and dust my misfortune into the bin. Yes, despite my low balance account, I can still be sued and held accountable.

Your derelict guy scerario isnt about net worth as defined by "poor" and "middle class". That would be an indigent individual with no ties and no intention of creating any.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

"The poor person can just walk away"

Hmmm...how so? How does being poor make devistating loss of personal property easier than for someone of the middle class?

Not one bit less devastating, but the cost of insurance over time vs. impact is not as good a value, at least to some, since the insurance will itself be difficult to afford. It is easy to become "insurance poor" simply paying the premiums.

I did not intend to belittle the poor, rather to introduce the concept that the "value" of a dollar depends a great deal on how many you have.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

This was very obviously a case of lack of due diligence on the part of the vessel owner, however rather than lumber every other boat owner needing a lift-out with an insurance requirement the marina owner should have a written agreement which specifies where each risk lies.

The purpose of insurance is to allow you to contract the costs of rectifying unmanageable risks to another party, unfortunately like a lot of old institutions these days it has been corrupted and perverted by dishonest people on both sides and is no longer trustworthy.

Sure it was the boat owners fault but when people do stupid things there are responses. The insurance requirement thins out a lot of the questionable owners...if they won't pay for insurance what else aren't they keeping up on?