Next step?

[johnn33]

You have some good foulies; might I suggest always go on watch with a red light torch, gloves, and knife?
John

[Lucky Luke 1]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

You didn't provide much background on your skill set, but there's a world of difference between cruising and sailing.

If you aren't very handy with a wrench, understand things like engines, electrical and so on, and aren't comfortable whipping off a pump, diagnosing things with a DVM, putting an eye splice in some double braid, and so on, helping out on some other peoples projects would be a good way to learn (and to meet some people who might help you out later).

Basic skill set only.
Servicing and maintenance I'll be pretty well right with as well as small mechanical jobs. Electrical: I'm not scared of but do have trouble with more complicated stuff. Plumbing i should be fine with. I have no idea about rope work. I bodgie pretty good but i'm not technology savvy.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Lucky Luke 1

So much for saying Ocean racing is not for me and that it's true I'm more the mentality of a cruiser mindset - but I've agreed to more offshore racing... I'm a sucker for punishment, it seems.

Thinking I shall also enroll in some courses in Hobart, Bellerive Yacht Club, do a short Crew course and a short Helming course.

Luke,

I think someone up-thread expressed the opinion that racing (in their opinion) was useless for providing the experience you want to gain.
I respectfully disagree.

The two things that racing will help you learn and become better at are: (1) sailing the boat well on all points of sail (all wind angles); and (2) when offshore, dealing with whatever gets thrown at you.

The one thing I find that drives me bananas here on Lake Ontario are sailors who only ever do what I call "out-and-backs".

It's a tempting trap, I realise. Nice day, family/friends onboard, get the sails up, reach out and away from Toronto for an hour or two, then tack once and reach back to harbour. That kind of sailing never challenges the sailors onboard to ever experience the myriad of wind angles, sail trim, perhaps even sail changes and/or even reefing, which will build their sailing skills and also teach them to really know their boat.

Offshore racing, as you've just found, combines trying to sail the boat fast and exceptionally well, with breakages and dealing with whatever-the-weather-gods-throw-at-you. That's a taste of cruising. I'm not saying that cruising is like offshore racing (which as you've experienced is at the extreme performance end of the spectrum), but what I am saying is when you and the Admiral are cruising, there will be times offshore when you'll just have to contend with the weather you're in, take care of your boat as best you can and hang on until you're through it.

So those offshore racing experiences are ultimately valuable experiences that will stand you in good stead in your journey to cruising.

(Also, those Bellerive Yacht Club courses sound like a great idea. Do you have your VHF license yet?)

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

[mvweebles]

I'll take a wild guess that lack of mechanical and repair skills (or cost/hassle to hire) has killed more cruising dreams than lack of sailing skills......probably not even close. Debating efficacy of racing experience is nibbling around the edges.

Peter

[GILow]

I used to recommend people crew on race boats to get some sailing experience. I no longer do so.

I lost count of the number of them that came back traumatised from being shouted at, given unintelligible instructions and generally treated as animated rail-meat.

Although the principle is sound, the reality is that no racing boat is going to spend time explaining why something is being done or how something works. And, in all probability, the sorts of boats that will take novice crew are probably desperate for crew. And most likely they are desperate because, frankly, they are crap skippers who have no idea how to treat people.

The good skippers have deep, loyal crew lists.

I think crewing on a race boat is more likely to discourage a novice sailor than enhance their keenness.

A pity really.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I'll take a wild guess that lack of mechanical and repair skills (or cost/hassle to hire) has killed more cruising dreams than lack of sailing skills......probably not even close. Debating efficacy of racing experience is nibbling around the edges.

Peter

Absolutely agree with this insight.

[Jim Cate]

I think someone up-thread expressed the opinion that racing (in their opinion) was useless for providing the experience you want to gain.
I respectfully disagree.

The two things that racing will help you learn and become better at are: (1) sailing the boat well on all points of sail (all wind angles); and (2) when offshore, dealing with whatever gets thrown at you.

I agree that the racing will expose you to sailing in conditions that one would not normally choose to sail in... been there and done that!

But the difference in mind set between R and C is that when sailing offshore and the wx gets really crappy, the racer continues to drive the boat to its max and the cruiser has the option of heaving to or just slowing way down or other mitigating methods of improving the quality of life aboard and/or reducing chance of boat damage. Had they been cruisers the damage they experienced would likely never have happened (my guess!).

Useful experience for Luke, that's for sure, but possibly giving him a false idea of what offshore cruising can be like (and the boat he was on wasn't even racing, just trying to keep up for observational purposes). So, my advice, Luke, is to keep on racing when the opportunity arises, but don't think that it is representative of the cruising experience.

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by GILow

I used to recommend people crew on race boats to get some sailing experience. I no longer do so.

I lost count of the number of them that came back traumatised from being shouted at, given unintelligible instructions and generally treated as animated rail-meat.

Although the principle is sound, the reality is that no racing boat is going to spend time explaining why something is being done or how something works. And, in all probability, the sorts of boats that will take novice crew are probably desperate for crew. And most likely they are desperate because, frankly, they are crap skippers who have no idea how to treat people.

The good skippers have deep, loyal crew lists.

I think crewing on a race boat is more likely to discourage a novice sailor than enhance their keenness.

A pity really.

Absolutely correct. Racing is not a way to learn sailing. It’s a way to learn to race.

[JPA Cate]

In Tasmania, where Lucky Luke lives and was for a local event, Beauty Point to Hobart, he had typical Tassie conditions, when a southerly comes through. Winter ones are stronger. He did not have the start that at 25-35 for the first 24 hrs. was strong. Add 10 kn. boat speed to the top and 45 is the highest apparent wind strength they had to cope with. LL was out of that, and just as well, it would have been very difficult to rest on off watches, and difficult to effect repairs.

But all in all, I think small local club racing, here in Tassie, at any rate, and in SF when I lived there and crewed on small boats 24 -31 ft, it was a good way to learn. One was started in jobs where one did no harm (packing the chute, tailing for grinders), and if attentive, could learn a lot just from watching. One did not have to crew for the screamers (other rides available); one could ask questions after the race (it would be really rude to demand someone's attention while they were very busy); the ocean teaches you about the need for weather gear">foul weather gear. I mean, we're talking about grownups here. Surely they don't expect spoon feeding?! I didn't learn anything at all about foredeck work till after I hooked up with Jim, and that's another story. At low level club racing, yes, there may be time on the rail, but I learned a lot, and I was delighted to be appreciated for my ability to help work on engines. Maybe being willing to take instruction is a large part of making it work. My Mom & Dad taught me that if "it" was worth doing, "it" was worth doing the best I could. Ymmv.

And, yeah, I know there are heaps of cruisers who don't care about sail trim at all, or even sail condition. But they don't have to be that way, and racing is a good place to learn to see it. Even on the rail, you can look over your shoulder at the main, even though you can't see the jenny. If you're tailing for the grinder, you can watch to see when he eases, check the tell tales. You CAN learn.

Ann

LittleWing77 and I seem to be (along with wingssail) big proponents for using low level club racing to learn to sail. Makes me wonder if we were treated differently from other new crew for some reason????

[ChrisJHC]

Re courses:

The one-day Australian Sailing courses (Start Crewing and Start Helming) are okay but not essential.
They will cover all aspects of Crewing and Helming whereas the race path will generally have you in one position for a while.

The 5-day RYA Competent Crew course is better plus you get 5 days living aboard with an instructor that loves to talk about all things sailing.
It does, however, cost more money and takes longer.

For other courses, look at what the requirements are for the offshore races you want to get involved with.
For example, for Cat 1 or 2 races, each boat has to have a certain number of people qualified in:
* Sea Safety and Survival
* Marine First Aid
* LROCP (radio)

Get those courses plus some hands-on experience and you’ll be in high demand.

[letsgetsailing3]

You could take courses, but in all honesty, the way you'd learn the most would be to buy a 22-25 foot sailboat.

Not too expensive to keep in good repair, but has the basic "big boat" systems, and you'd get used to all the aspects of boat ownership. And likely have a lot of fun along the way. Will give you the most "on the water" time.

Racing can be fun to learn about sailing efficiency, but is pretty limited in scope as a beginner. Courses are good, too, but expensive. The cheapest time on the water in the long term will be on your own boat. If you choose well, you'll be able to sell it in a few years for probably what you paid for it, minus the maintenance/carrying costs you'll have along the way.

[Lucky Luke 1]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Luke,

I think someone up-thread expressed the opinion that racing (in their opinion) was useless for providing the experience you want to gain.
I respectfully disagree.

The two things that racing will help you learn and become better at are: (1) sailing the boat well on all points of sail (all wind angles); and (2) when offshore, dealing with whatever gets thrown at you.

The one thing I find that drives me bananas here on Lake Ontario are sailors who only ever do what I call "out-and-backs".

It's a tempting trap, I realise. Nice day, family/friends onboard, get the sails up, reach out and away from Toronto for an hour or two, then tack once and reach back to harbour. That kind of sailing never challenges the sailors onboard to ever experience the myriad of wind angles, sail trim, perhaps even sail changes and/or even reefing, which will build their sailing skills and also teach them to really know their boat.

Offshore racing, as you've just found, combines trying to sail the boat fast and exceptionally well, with breakages and dealing with whatever-the-weather-gods-throw-at-you. That's a taste of cruising. I'm not saying that cruising is like offshore racing (which as you've experienced is at the extreme performance end of the spectrum), but what I am saying is when you and the Admiral are cruising, there will be times offshore when you'll just have to contend with the weather you're in, take care of your boat as best you can and hang on until you're through it.

So those offshore racing experiences are ultimately valuable experiences that will stand you in good stead in your journey to cruising.

(Also, those Bellerive Yacht Club courses sound like a great idea. Do you have your VHF license yet?)

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

Agreed.
No I don't.

[Lucky Luke 1]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

You could take courses, but in all honesty, the way you'd learn the most would be to buy a 22-25 foot sailboat.

Not too expensive to keep in good repair, but has the basic "big boat" systems, and you'd get used to all the aspects of boat ownership. And likely have a lot of fun along the way. Will give you the most "on the water" time.

For sure but it wont get used nearly as much as one that's better suited to my needs. Im happy to be on others boats leaning whilst I save and then buy what will suit us. I look at boats daily and there has been some very interesting and reasonably priced boats that have come up locally even with the crazy market.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

Re courses:

The one-day Australian Sailing courses (Start Crewing and Start Helming) are okay but not essential.
They will cover all aspects of Crewing and Helming whereas the race path will generally have you in one position for a while.

The 5-day RYA Competent Crew course is better plus you get 5 days living aboard with an instructor that loves to talk about all things sailing.
It does, however, cost more money and takes longer.

For other courses, look at what the requirements are for the offshore races you want to get involved with.
For example, for Cat 1 or 2 races, each boat has to have a certain number of people qualified in:
* Sea Safety and Survival
* Marine First Aid
* LROCP (radio)

Get those courses plus some hands-on experience and you’ll be in high demand.

Chris!

How was your experience? Are you glad you did it? In hindsight, is there anything you wish you'd done differently?

Cheers on sailing a good race and sticking in to the bitter end. A true soldier's boat!

Well done.

Warmly,
LittleWing77

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

All in all, I think small local club racing, here in Tassie, at any rate, and in SF when I lived there and crewed on small boats 24-31 ft, it was a good way to learn.

One was started in jobs where one did no harm (packing the chute, tailing for grinders), and if attentive, could learn a lot just from watching. One did not have to crew for the screamers (other rides available); one could ask questions after the race (it would be really rude to demand someone's attention while they were very busy); the ocean teaches you about the need for foul weather gear. I mean, we're talking about grownups here. Surely they don't expect spoon feeding?! I didn't learn anything at all about foredeck work till after I hooked up with Jim, and that's another story.

At low level club racing, yes, there may be time on the rail, but I learned a lot, and I was delighted to be appreciated for my ability to help work on engines. Maybe being willing to take instruction is a large part of making it work. My Mom & Dad taught me that if "it" was worth doing, "it" was worth doing the best I could. Ymmv.

And, yeah, I know there are heaps of cruisers who don't care about sail trim at all, or even sail condition. But they don't have to be that way, and racing is a good place to learn to see it. Even on the rail, you can look over your shoulder at the main, even though you can't see the jenny. If you're tailing for the grinder, you can watch to see when he eases, check the tell tales. You CAN learn.

Ann

LittleWing77 and I seem to be (along with wingssail) big proponents for using low level club racing to learn to sail. Makes me wonder if we were treated differently from other new crew for some reason????

All we can do is speak from our own experience, I guess, Ann.

I started out in dinghies, eventually transitioning to club racing on monohulls - Sharks (24') and J24s, later up to bigger 40+ monohulls. Eventually biked to Newport, RI and started offshore deliveries and ocean racing, which I did in the Caribbean, England and Aus.

Had my fair share of screamers, but as Ann says, you learn something from everyone - even what you're not going to do yourself. Often I was the only woman on the boat, which was a crucible in itself. Really fun being a foredeckker combined with a screaming Owner-helmsman!

Anyway, it was helpful to me. And racing is fun! I had probably my most fun on sailboats when we had that mysterious alchemy of a good solid crew who worked well together driving the boat hard. Plus - all those regatta parties!

Now I'm more of a been-there, done-that person. I'm content with having the knowledge of making the boat go well.

Warmly,
LittleWing77