Newby to Ferro Yachts

[pulyajibon]

I am considering buying a ferro yacht, could someone let me know,
do you need heavyer anchor chain due to weight of yacht, is heaver ropes needed to tie to mariners? Are heaver masts used ect. Do ferro yachts sail as quick as glass yachts? Recommended keel type for coastal cruising. I am thinking about a 44ft yacht. Thanks for your help and information. I am finding it hard to get an estimate for insurance in Australia any idears?

[jens_elsborg]

I have helped build a 46 feet, gaff rigged Spray. Generally they can have same rigging as any other boat but tend to be a bit on the heavy side. If they are build properly the can be very strong and last forever with little or no maintenance but are seldom fast boats.
I have had problems insuring the boat beyond national cruising - because they are rare the insurance companies seem to be worried about cost for repairs.

[noelex 77]

Welcome to the forum.
Of all the hull building materials ferocement is generally considered the least desirable.
Its drawbacks include:
Poor impact resistance
Heavy displacement (this means slower and larger sails etc needed)
Often homebuilt
corrosion of the mesh work
Very difficult or impossible to insure

The main advantage is given the above problems many yachts of this material have a very low second hand price and there are large yachts often with wonderful interiors and loads of equipment available for a low price.
The above is only an outline and I suggest some detailed reading before considering the yacht. For an inexpensive coastal cruising I would recommend a cold molded wooden boat or an older fiberglass yacht.

[skipmac]

Noelex pointed out one major issue with ferrocement boats. When you decide to sell it will be very difficult. I used to sell boats and even in a booming market ferro boats were very difficult to move.

The problem, while there are a number of well built ferro boats there are many poorly constructed, home builts that can have serious structural problems. This plus the insurance problems, usually poor performance, and other issues makes most buyers reluctant to consider ferro unless the price is just too good to resist.

Consider all this very carefully before getting into a ferro boat and make sure you get a GOOD inspection from a surveyor that is experienced with ferro construction.

[Springbok]

I have owned 2 ferro yachts and am about to buy my 3rd. If you want a lot of boat at a reasonable price ferro is the way to go.If resale is an issue you will get your money back on a good buy.I want to go cruising again, so resale is not an issue.The main criteria is the hull-who made it and how?I agree there has been some bad backyard boats,there have also been many cheaper glass boats mass-produced which have many issues.Re fittings,rigging etc it is just another yacht.Re sailing, a ferro has won the Sydney to Hobart race.Generally they sail more upright with their long keels.We averaged 6knots Cape Town to the Caribbean,which is ok in my book.Also large fuel and water tanks,lots of storage.Do not be put off by the"experts"who have never owned one.The yacht I am viewing/buying this Monday is 20 years old and the hull was profesionally made and has NO rust showing.It is 45ft,so the size you are looking at. Good hunting.
Clyde

[pulyajibon]

After talking to many (35approx) yacht owners/builders none hve given me any viable reson not to buy a ferro yacht. There only reson not to is there to heavy or slow or that they are just no good. This to me is not a valid reson. I spoke to one yacht broker and his reson not to buy a ferro yacht was they are cheap and I dont make much commision on it.I think if you are cruising you dont need to get there in break neck speed. and weight can be good in short sharp swells.
I know a profesional timber yacht builder who owened and live on a ferro yacht for about ten years. He told me his reason for buying it was size for money and little maintenance as it was well built. he sold as he needed the money to buy a house.
It is like anything in life there is good and bad just be cautious.

[Springbok]

Hi Pulyajibon, these people are the"biased experts"you will run into everywhere. There are "experts "who will be negative about Hunter yachts,Morgan OI etc, yet there are thousands of these "tupperware"boats out there.This in itself tells you they can't be as bad as is made out.A circumnavigation has been made in a 18ft open boat,wonder what the experts have to say about that.Please visit the web-page The World of Ferroboats and read some sanity into the subject.Both my previous ferro yachts were good cruising yachts. I only sold when I had other family commitments.Now I can cruise again and in my price range a good ferro is the way to go.
Regards,
Clyde

[Celestialsailor]

There are certainly plenty of threads in this forum regarding Ferro boats. I agree with almost everything that has been said here regarding cement boats. You could probably circum-navigate a 19 ft, paper-mache boat but it might me wise to go with better odds. I have seen 45ft.+ ferro boats for $15,000. Seems a cheap price to fulfill a dream if you are ready for everything else that comes along with it.

[pulyajibon]

could you please explain what you mean by if you are ready for everything else that come with it.
Thanks
martin

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by pulyajibon

could you please explain what you mean by if you are ready for everything else that come with it.
Thanks
martin

Quite simply...you get what you pay for no matter what the hull material is.

[Sam Plan B]

Here is a good reason not to buy a ferro hull. Concrete is not waterproof. If the barrier coat is scratched anywhere (scuffed from contact with a piling, for example) salt water will be drawn into the concrete shell. The armature will begin to corrode in short order. When steel corrodes it expands and will force the concrete to spall. This damage will begin as surface pitting but will continue until the barrier coat is repaired. The damage, perhaps from a momentary grounding, may be out of sight until the boat is hauled and this may be years away.

Ferro boats has a reputation for low resale value. If you buy this boat you should consider your money gone for ever.

[pulyajibon]

Question.
If concrete is so pourus why are very large water tanks made from concrete and dont leak.

[Sam Plan B]

I am an architect. I can tell you a great deal of care is taken to make a building's below grade exterior walls water proof. Keep in mind, a typical wall thickness is 12" or more. From the face of the concrete outward one finds the following. 60mil elastomeric adhesive membrane, 1/2" bentonite clay panels (they are applied dry and swell from ground water), 1/2" protection board, 6" of gravel for drainage. Besides this, the building will have a sump with two pumps (one for backup). All this is necessary because concrete is not waterproof. Your concrete water tank will have a waterproof membrane on the inside to keep the water where it is supposed to be.

Besides salt water migrating into the ferro shell, rainwater can easily find a way from the bilge to the shell by way of keep bolts, through hulls and such like. This is why steel hulls often rust through from the inside.

Having said all this, it's your money. Later on you can start a thread about "How Can I Unload a Ferro Hull".

[pulyajibon]

Im a plumber, and have many years experiance (31) with water tanks and underground buildings ect. No new water tank thay I know of has a water proof membrain on the inside, just good old concrete with a smooth finish.
We will have to agree to disagree.
There is good and bad in all hull types.
Thanks for your comments.
Happy Sailing

[Sam Plan B]

I assume the interior of your water tank has 1" of cement parging on it. If so, it will work as a practicle solution. This is 19th century tech. But another reason why ferro is not a good material has to do with the nature of reinforced concrete or ferrocement. Concrete is very strong in compression but weak in tension. That is why steel is used to reinforce it. Steel is very strong in tension and compression but, due to its cost, is used sparingly where the dynamic forces are most severe. In a reinforced concrete beam, the bottom of the beam is in tension and that is where the steel is placed. Now with regard to a ferro hull, the ocean is a dynamic environment. The hull is constantly in tension and compression as it passes through waves. Concrete does not stretch. The steel reinforcing is needed to compensate for this property. If the steel begins to degrade due to corrosion or if it simply has not been applied in an exacting manner the hull will develop hairline cracks. These cracks will admit more water that causes more corrosion. This happened to the SS Selma, a ferrocemet freighter built in 1922. See: S.S.Selma, Concrete Ship - Crystal Beach and Bolivar Peninsula
Now your prospective ferro hull is much smaller, one supposes, than the Selma but the same forces will be in play. You may be able to hold off nature through maintenance. One reason ferro has a bad reputation is because people without the financial resources for the ongoing maintenance by a hull for cheep and find themselves in a downward spiral. It's far better to buy an older GRP hull because when it is restored it stays restored. Look around for a Morgan 41 or a Columbia 41 from the 70's. You may pay, say, $25,000 for the boat but you will sleep better.