newbie has questions about heeling

I wasn't going to go there, but, since you did SOme people never get comfortable with the boat heeled over. Many approach this by buying motor sailors, and spending allot of time and money motorsailing. Others, take the multihull approach. I enjoy beating into the seas with the rail under. Standing on the winches does not make me the least bit uncomfortable, but my wife does not share that ideal. I can see her tense up when the boat heels beyond 5 degrees. at 10, she is OK, but tense. At 15 degrees, she starts to think this isn't fun anymore. We bought a trimaran for that reason. I can get the speed I want, and we can do it relatively level. If a multihull is at 35 degrees, you have much bigger problems than comfort.

[CaptainK]

Kai.

If a multihull rolled to 35 degrees. You'd better kiss your sailing trip, "bye,bye"!!

[BC Mike]

Always a good idea to check the Screamometer. The pitch of the voice is a good sign to listen for. The original rudders on the Catalina 27 are not very good. Many have new rudders that balance better. If the tiller is more than about 7 degrees off center you are dragging the rudder through the water and slowing the boat down. I prefer the tiller in the middle or maybe up to three degrees off center, and then I would flatten the main and or move the traveller down. After these adjustments have been made and the main is flat and the traveller down about two feet, you can spill a little by easing the main sheet, but it is now time to reef. The rudder can be your guide, if it is dragging do something.
Michael

[delmarrey]

I've put a red line on our inclinemeter. Anything over 20º is time to ease off or reef depending on the weather. I believe in performance so too much heeling is unproductive. We get gusts & puffs that come and go so reefing is a lot of work for just a short distance around an island or across a channel. I do a lot of the feathering on the good days but when the wind comes out of the North, it's time to down-size.

The heeling use to bother my wife at first but she has gotten to know the boat and it's capabilities. She use to live in a life jacket at first but only wears it now when the wind gets over 10 kts.

Smaller boats react a lot faster to wind changes so you have good reason to be a bit touchy about the heeling thing. But a fixed keel boat should never blowdown unless someone does something real stupid like get in the surf (SF).

Lots of good advice here, you've come to the right place........................_/)

[Alan Wheeler]

" the wind gets over 10knts"... you mean the wind can get under 10Knts? Don't know if I have seen such a thing down here

I beg to differ on the fixed keel not getting knocked down. Last time we sailed up to Santa Cruz the wind was 2-3 knots, with 20+kt gusts, so we would ghost along, trying to keep moving, and keep trimmed, then get hit with a 30 second gust of 20+kts. Usually from a different direction. We got truely knocked down twice. Boom in the water. This was on a 16000# full keel boat. THe scream-o-meter was off the charts that day.

[delmarrey]

I'll never set foot on one of those!!!!!!!!!

20 kt. gusts should never blow down a fixed keeled boat. Especially of that size!

Aye! Better don the foul weather boots..._/)

[CaptainK]

Hey Kai!!!

I'm all game. Let's go sailing, and make that scream-o-meter go full tilt!!

Delmarrey, trying to point, head into the wind with almost no wind, then a 20kt gust hits you on the beam, the boat will heel hard. THe weight of the boat, and the design would not allow the boat to accelerate enough to compensate, and both times I was below and unable to release the tiller or sheets fast enough. It was not a damaging knockdown, just uncomfortable. 20kts was a guess. More is likely, but regardless, hit on the beam with no forward motion and the sails sheeted in tight, the boat can only go one way.

[Alan Wheeler]

Arrr Kai, now that sounds more like what I am used to.
No blow to full blow to no blow. Yeeup!

It makes for a lively sail, but not a fun one. I would prefer 35kts steady on the nose. At least you can trim for that. Kittiwake is not a tender boat, but she will react to gusts. Certain times of year here we get that type of miserable sailing conditions. Right now it is warm and clear, but the wind is West at 20 gusting to 30. It is a west beat to get out. Not ideal for no motor. I can row against anything up to about 10 kts, then I am either sailing or giving up. FWIW, I have a couple of photos of Kittiwake in the gallery shown "in the groove". She is heeled at about 20 degrees, and the rail is in the water. Low freeboard does that. We have put the Challenger's rail in the water once, and I do not care to do that again.

[CaptainK]

Well Kai.

If ya did that to the ole Challenger. I bet you made a big mess down below decks!!

How much of a mess did ya make?

I pride myself in how I secure my boats below decks. Nothing moved. Although that is a major concern in pushing a cruising boat with all your worldly crap on board. Noting worse than hearing the TV crash against the leeward hull. Or the computer.

[CaptainK]

Hee Hee.

Now we wouldn't want that to happen now do we?

[Catamount]

My son (now 8) is a little averse to heeling. But part of that, I think, relates to the feeling of insecurity about falling (or sliding) out of the boat that Anne described in the opening post. When we delivered my "new" boat up the Bay last summer, he kept his eye on the heel-o-meter and was sure to bring it to my attention whenever we were even 1 degree past 15! That was until he found a secure spot where he could wedge himself so that he forgot all about the angle of heel.

My current boat is an ex-racing boat which (for now) doesn't really have any seats in the cockpit, much less coamings. It does have wells in the aft deck for storing the crew-overboard horseshoe buoys (to keep them off the rail for reduced windage, dontchaknow). My son found that he could stand in those wells (when the buoys were out), almost up to his waist. A nice secure spot!

I know another part of insecurity about heeling comes from concern about a boat's ability to right itself. When I was a kid, I took comfort from a photo in the brochure for my family's Paceship PY23. In the photo, they had pulled the mast all the way down to the water, and the boat floated so high on its side that the cockpit coamings were still out of the water. There was a person inside the companionway looking out, smiling. So I knew that the boat could go all the way over, we would stay dry, and that it (presumably) would come back up.

Recently my dad told me that some years ago on a cruise to Nova Scotia he had a chance to talk with one of the Paceship boatbuilders who explained the circumstances under which that photo in the brochure had been taken -- they had pulled the boat over to test the hull-deck joint for leaks!

Around the same time that we had the Paceship, my wife's family had a San Juan 21, a boat which is a bit more "lively" (my wife and I still have that boat). As a kid, my wife also didn't like heeling, and she told her dad she wouldn't go sailing with him unitl he bought a bigger boat that didn't tip as easily (so he got a Galaxy 32). I guess a few years later she was sick of her fear of heeling, so she had her dad take her out on their Laser and capsize it on purpose. She became so adept at sailing (and capsizing) the Laser that if it capsizes, or even turtles, she can right the thing without getting more than her ankles wet! (she just sort of scrambles around as the boat goes over)

Now she's egging her dad on to put the rail in the water when we're sailing with him on the Galaxy.

Regards,

Tim