New Sail Wrinkles

[Sheet]

We just purchased our first set of new sails and had a question about wrinkles. These are made with Hydra Net. We tensioned the battens several times but still have numerous small vertical wrinkles across the sail. The sailmaker said they were only cosmetic and may fade in time. Someone said the issue comes with puckering from the stitching and can be avoided. We've seen other HydraNet sails with no wrinkles.
Are these wrinkles acceptable?

[Bellinghamster]

I don't think it's the seam stitching since the wrinkle "lines" span evenly across multiple panels and are in areas where there are no seams. They seem to be primarily in a line midway between battens, so could be due the way the batten pockets are sewn on, or low-stretch fabric batten pockets are taking up most/all of the tension from the battens.

A quick look on the web found pics of other Hydra Net mainsails (Precision Sails website and even Hydra Nets datasheet) show similar wavy areas... I guess that's one downside of super-low-stretch sailcloth - they may not stretch a bit to even themselves out.

[Sheet]

Thanks Bellinghamster. I know nothing about making sails and looking for reasonable expectations. That makes sense about the battens pockets. We did a lot of research on Hydra Net but never saw anything concerning wrinkles. Thanks.

[fxykty]

Your sail looks similar to how our previous 11 year old HydraNet mainsail looked with about 45,000 ocean sailing miles. It was stretched out. But since it’s a new sail it looks from your pictures that it is puckering at the seams - that’s a sail maker problem.

In our case we replaced our mainsail with a different material as HydraNet is not a great material if you care about sail shape. The material only has low stretch fibres in one direction, so it still stretches as the weave compresses, as well as at 90* and like any woven material on the 45* as well.

[Sheet]

Fxykty, these are brand new sails.It seems you got a lot of milage and your money's worth from those sails. Did you have wrinkles when the sails were new or did they appear over time.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Sheet

Fxykty, these are brand new sails.It seems you got a lot of milage and your money's worth from those sails. Did you have wrinkles when the sails were new or did they appear over time.

No idea, sorry, they were like that when we bought the boat. The original owners bought them before they left France in 2011 and sailed half the world before selling in NZ, where we bought her. We replaced them in 2020.

[Joli]

This is our hydrant main after about 20,000 miles. We'll probably have the luff recut next year to remove some draft.

[Greatest Lakes]

Seems odd on a tri radial cut. Mine are Elvstrøm, ekko material. No puckering of any kind. My old dacron sails from 1998 didn't even have that much.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Joli

This is our hydrant main after about 20,000 miles. We'll probably have the luff recut next year to remove some draft.

Your wrinkles are at the battens, indicating that you could increase batten tension.

The OP’s wrinkles are at the panel seams, just like with our old main. Since the OP’s cause isn’t aged and stretched material the wrinkles may be caused by poor workmanship.

[JPA Cate]

You know, if you know another good sailmaker in your area, I'd go talk to them. It is that sometimes having the bobbin tension too tight, can cause puckering in the seams. It may well be that after a bit of use, the little wrinkles will go away; It could also be that the thread will stretch over time. Do you know whether they were sewn with dacron thread or ptfe thread or a combination thereof? The PTFE thread has more UV resistance, and will retain its strength longer. The puckering is between battens, and one of the panels is better than the rest. This could be just a tightening of the battens issue.

If the guys here don't solve the question for you, I'd talk to someone who really knows sails. None of our fully battened mains have had that kind of puckering when new, but our sail maker comes and helps set up the sail. Our only hydranet sail is only partially battened, and did not have puckering between the full battens when new.

Ann

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Sheet

We just purchased our first set of new sails and had a question about wrinkles. These are made with Hydra Net. We tensioned the battens several times but still have numerous small vertical wrinkles across the sail. The sailmaker said they were only cosmetic and may fade in time. Someone said the issue comes with puckering from the stitching and can be avoided. We've seen other HydraNet sails with no wrinkles.
Are these wrinkles acceptable?

It's going to be up to you and your sailmaker to decide if the wrinkles are acceptable. I would observe that the angle of the light in that photo exaggerates these wrinkles. But frankly, I would not like my mainsail to look like that.

These are not needle puckers. Those would be much smaller.

Wrinkles like this generally indicate an unbalance in the tension on the cloth. The direction of the wrinkles (in your case vertically) indicates where extra tension is being applied. For you that means the vertical tension in those areas is greater than the horizontal tension or that horizontal tension is lacking. Usually to remove wrinkles you tighten or pull on the cloth perpendicularly to the wrinkles. Pulling horizontal tension on your sailcloth by tightening the battens might reduce the wrinkles, but since your wrinkles are patchy I don't think that will solve this problem (the smooth areas are already properly tensioned). Pulling too hard horizontally may reduce the vertical wrinkles but put horizontal wrinkles where the cloth is now smooth.

Looking closely at your sail I think I see something indicative: It's hard to see clearly because your photo is very low resolution but it seems like the wrinkles occur mostly above the light grey horizontal lines which might be seams (or some artifact of the photo) while the cloth just below those lines is smooth.

At every light grey horizontal line the wrinkles are present above that, but not below it. This is a clue. If those lines are seams (I cannot tell) then the cloth was not equally tensioned when sewed together. I'd say, somehow, this is a worksmanship problem

You might see some change if you reduced the halyard tension but I don't think so.

[bensolomon]

Do the wrinkles change while sailing? I.e. When under load? I don't usually tension my battens in the pocket. I use the outhaul to adjust the camber of the sail and she unwrinkled.

[Sheet]

As the sail becomes more loaded in heavy wind the wrinkles do become less apparent but still noticeable. This was my first post and I am surprised by all of the feedback and observations. Thank you so much!!

[singlespeed]

Ask you sailmaker for the contact info on other people who bought sail from him. Ask them. This is a supposedly stable cloth. I would expect some wrinkles and stretching over time, but not this many on a new sail.

[markiobe]

needs a recut, no question