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[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The image illustrates one of the offshore areas proposed to be designated for wind farms in Bass Strait off the south eastern coast of Australia. The eastern side of this is where a number of boats were lost and fatalities occurred during the Sydney to Hobart yacht race a couple of decades ago.

There are others dotted around the Australian coast.

Will these things become a menace to yachtmen in the future?

Short answer - No.
Long answer - if you are successful enough in life to have and operate a cruising sailboat then you have demonstrated enough nous to allow you to cope with the proposed wind farms in Bass Strait.

[Rumrace]

Oh I forgot to post a photo.
Visiting Canadian Cold Water Scuba Instructor. I had 2 Aussies join me back in Canada for a Dive under an ICE floe. Was really funny.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

A lot of us are yachties who live on our own little mobile, islanded, energy networks and have real world experience with wind and solar power and you can't fool us with a pretty little illustration. Wind energy is only cheap if you ignore what else is required to provide reliable 24/365 power.

Oh I see, The industry expert,s power regulators, doctoral scientists etc are all wrong and some sailor sitting in his armchair knows better , right then

thanks I think Ill stay with the experts thanks

the European supergrid being built is specifically designed to allows renewables to be shared around to overcome the issue of standby/backstop power gen, The wind is always blowing somewhere . It also allows larger backstop power gen to be shared around all renewable orientated grids

The futures renewable , 100%, in two decades we'll have more electricity then we know what to do with. The future is Grid based, not a few silly panels on ones roof

[Rumrace]

Toronto has two firsts.
Two university students invented the Green Roof Initiative now building code in Toronto and Chicago.
Toronto has begun to store night time energy losses. Normally at night as cities shut down the juice doesn’t it goes to earth.
There are not enough batteries to store this waist some 40% of the energy paid for. So toronto sends the excess juice to Toronto Island at the back of Muggs channel. It runs pumps which send compressed air to two huge tanks buried under the lake.
The air is released in the morning to run 4 huge dynamos on shore the public think are art exhibits. The city is at 96% renewable about to pass 100 or set a new bar

[Rumrace]

As far as liveaboard boater living the life telling society how bad they are don’t bother plugging in K.

[CaptTom]

To what @goboatingnow said, I'll add that all the smart investment money today is on renewable energy. I can only speak to the US market, but all the most successful energy companies here (and lots of startups) are investing all they can into wind and solar.

Clearly it's not only technically feasible and economical, but also profitable.

We armchair experts can pick and choose which data to factor in when forming our opinions, but the invisible hand of the market has already shown the value of these technologies.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

To what @goboatingnow said, I'll add that all the smart investment money today is on renewable energy. I can only speak to the US market, but all the most successful energy companies here (and lots of startups) are investing all they can into wind and solar.

Clearly it's not only technically feasible and economical, but also profitable.

We armchair experts can pick and choose which data to factor in when forming our opinions, but the invisible hand of the market has already shown the value of these technologies.

agreed Shell is not pumping billions into the huge Irish offshore wind for fun , based on tariff structures, it looks like an extremely quick payback on capital deployed

these companies are in this market cause its good business

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The Levelised Cost of Electrify from offshore wind is one of the more cost effective means of generating electricity. So I don’t know where you get your statement

New ideas (cons) always start cheap.. take diesel and diesel cars for instance..

[Anders]

I don't know about other countries but the UK offshore wind is heavily subsidised and at the moment produces 1.2% of the need.

[seandepagnier]

offshore wind doesnt make a lot of sense yet, because we have not developed inshore wind yet.

inshore wind cost 1/3 as much as offshore wind. You can google this fact. This is in cost per mwh generated over the lifetime of the turbine. The emissions (yes wind power has 1/40th the emissions of gas turbine because of emissions producing the turbine) are much higher for offshore wind as they use large ships instead of trucks, the emissions are much higher at 1/15th of gas turbines and the construction is more difficult and cost more.

It just doesnt make sense to put these things offshore when there are so many rivers/lakes fields etc with none. Especially in australia, there are plenty of places to put wind turbines, but not a big surprise as we know they have a dysfunctional government that doesnt use logic to make decisions.

Just the chesapeake bay alone for example could produce at times enough power for the entire US. the sounds in NC have similar energy and none of it is being tapped. To reach 100% renewable you generally need several times the total capacity, so enough wind energy to produce 300-500% of demand. Keeping some turbines idle (not wearing) or producing various types of fuels from the excess using only electricity such as green hydrogen, methane, methanol, ammonia, ethanol etc.. all can be produced from only electricity, so excess renewables are desirable for multiple reasons.

Right now (according to EIA) wind power is 9.2% We need 30-50x more wind capacity in the US (or reduce consumption) but either way we are way off and doing it with offshore turbines will take a lot longer and cost a lot more. At the current rate of installment of wind power, it will take 120 years! At this point it will be too late. Its nice to have a few offshore ones for experimental value, but not as a serious component of energy production. They are not the most effective use of resources for combating rising co2 levels.

As for sailing thru them... What is the issue? They have to be spaced far enough apart anyway. Will the blades interacting with the wind affect sailing? How tall does your mast need to be to fear contact with the blades?

[goboatingnow]

in many countries large scale onland wind is not possible its an eyesore, the land isn't available and there are lots of objectors

offshore wind around here is seen as the future

You will not be allowed to sail through a wind farm field in so much as it will be marked as a hazard to navigation

[boatman61]

NIMBY's are everywhere as this thread proves..

[Rumrace]

Offshore I guess is less obtrusive certainly increases costs. Where they had a plan here on Lake Ontario one shipwreck was going to get destroyed or moved.
I don’t like the way they disrupt nature.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

NIMBY's are everywhere as this thread proves..

yes but the big issue is the availability of elevated sites , people do not want ALL their mountains covered in wind turbines

there's always a degree of NIMBYism , but offshore gets around that

[seandepagnier]

I guess this nimbyism explains why china has more than twice the wind power of any country?

China also have almost all of the gearless turbines.. maybe they make less noise more suitable for land based? What about using even more blades, reducing efficiency (15-20%) but greatly reducing tip speed and noise? We have various designs on boats that met different goals, but the commercial ones are all the same looking to optimize power output for cost, but the cost off offshore make this no more optimal. Land based turbines could be virtually silent (greatly reduced noise and tolerable to live near) and still cheaper than offshore.

What about inshore? I can't even see land in the middle of pamlico sound. The australia outback doesn't have suitable areas that would not disturb anyone? Shallow water is a lot cheaper than deep water.

Anyway.. NIMBY is a problem as the ocean (our backyard) is in question now!

The turbines block radar. So no one knows what is best, in germany you cant navigate between them in the fog! Then they can affect compasses, so an autopilot could potentially crash into one even if routed to miss.

Next, there are some who think it should be illegal to sail (< 2 miles) upwind of them because the boat would steal power from the companies and their investors. They even suggest that yachts can motor instead while passing in front of the turbines.

Other people will want to sail through them to troll for fish. And a few more attempt to sabotage them which will further increase restrictions. Though with video cameras on each one, it should be possible to punish anyone who crashes into one rather than restricting access?