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Old 26-10-2017, 07:50   #256
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
some of those cat sails might fit your current yacht.

This is what I couldn't raise on my own and it took three of us with a winch to do it. I cringe at the way we treated those sails but they do make exceedingly good beds for sleeping on deck when it was hot.

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Yeah, I wish I had some of those mainsails (and the spinnaker), but I sold all four of my beach cats before I left Florida and got way into cycling for a few years .....

Those mains had leech to luff battens and I had two sets of battens for different wind strengths

Funny thing is this 6600 lb displacement Bristol 27 I have now has about the same sail area as my last beach cat (a Nacra F-17) when I was running it with the spinnaker and that boat weighed in at around 300 lbs.

That boat would make you work really hard though (especially while buoy racing) due to it's light weight and dealing with the spinnaker. Plus they were sailed single handed back before 2007 or so
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Old 26-10-2017, 08:18   #257
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Yes, four vertical 6ft long lightweight battens which do make a difference.
Excellent; I'm sure you've noticed a huge difference.

I was reluctant to try the battens after reading tons of horror stories, but in the end I chose to trust my sailmaker, and that was a right decision.
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Old 26-10-2017, 08:20   #258
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Looks like we are saying similar things.

All racers know about reducing weight aloft and what a new sail can do vs an old bagged out sail. Even Hobie 16's have a composite tip on the top of their masts (the last 5' or so)

It's just that I see so many sailors on fine 40'-50' new or newish boats sailing along with their main sail leech flapping around like a flag while sailing upwind!

I'm thinking the best sails and the lightest mast still isn't going to help these guys.

Being an exracer, I paid about as much for my 8 oz dacron mainsail as I did for my sailboat. Racers can't stand old sails unless it's for racing in winds under 5 knots

Click image for larger version

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Wow, that's pretty

There's nothing like the sight of a good sail, well trimmed It's kind of even pornographic.
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:06   #259
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Wow, that's pretty

There's nothing like the sight of a good sail, well trimmed It's kind of even pornographic.
Thanks but that picture was from 5 years ago.

The sail is a bit discolored now but I can still get it flat as the picture. It's 8 oz and only has a luff of 25'5"

But I should treat it better. If I'm tired when I get back in from one of my weekend warrior (or vacation) cruises, I don't put the sail cover back on until the next day or so when I'm rested and never while out on those short cruises

Ps. The boat cost was $2,000.00. That sail: $1,600! Which seems sort of ridiculous.......
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:33   #260
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

As I am on the process of buying a boat this is something I had in my mind...too big..too small?

My father used to say "big boats, big problems". 30 years after and several boats after i still have that in my mind.

I am more comfortable with smaller boats, i feel them better and the size does not always give more security in term of sailing. My wife in the other side, looks the size from a comfort perspective. This second aspect is obviously taking more importance as we are reaching the 50 year old mark . My days of spending 3 weeks in a 22 feet First 22 with 2 small kids are over

With our budget we were looking boats between 27 and 35 and we always had the same discussion. At the end this is a question of compromise and as well personal choice. There is no boats too big or too small...they are boats you can't handle...

One thing in the other side that i DO not like is all the electric assistance...sail, anchor etc....i may be old school but i do prefer to have "hand control" and not depend too much on thing that can break and i will not be able to repair.

My 2 cents...

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Old 26-10-2017, 10:11   #261
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

Quote:
One thing in the other side that i DO not like is all the electric assistance...sail, anchor etc....i may be old school but i do prefer to have "hand control" and not depend too much on thing that can break and i will not be able to repair.
I have never understood this line of thinking. I'm scared it might break so I'll just have it in the broken state all the time. Utilize things that make your life easier (electricity) but have a manual means of backing it up is how I work things.
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Old 26-10-2017, 10:20   #262
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

Remember that electric winches can also be used as manual winches. They have the same outside configuration as the same size manual winch. So, there's your back-up! Already built in.

Windlasses are a different story, but if we're going to only buy a boat where we're willing to haul the anchor by hand, well, we'd all be sailing boats in the low 30' range, I reckon.

Anyway, the gear these days is really very reliable. Sure, it breaks, but if you were to set out on a cruise of a few years with newish electric bits, odds are very good that they'd work fine throughout.
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Old 26-10-2017, 10:34   #263
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

Not really...there are things you can fix or work-around by yourselves and others are more difficult.

As an example i had a friend who had his mainsail around the mast with electric engine. Of course one day, the thing got stuck with 20 knots wind...he was in trouble.

I am not against technology or things that make our life easier (i use a GPS ^^) but again it is a balance between risks and return.

And yes gear are very reliable these days.

All depend as well of the size of the boat. On a 27 or 30 ft the need is limited, it is obviously different for bigger boats.
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Old 26-10-2017, 10:42   #264
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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I have never understood this line of thinking. I'm scared it might break so I'll just have it in the broken state all the time. Utilize things that make your life easier (electricity) but have a manual means of backing it up is how I work things.
I'm thinking it's not good because it eliminates the little bit of exercise you do get while sailing

Most folks on here don't mind small electrical/electronics repairs anyway. Actually, I think many look forward to that sort of thing......
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Old 26-10-2017, 10:43   #265
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Not really...there are things you can fix or work-around by yourselves and others are more difficult.

As an example i had a friend who had his mainsail around the mast with electric engine. Of course one day, the thing got stuck with 20 knots wind...he was in trouble.

I am not against technology or things that make our life easier (i use a GPS ^^) but again it is a balance between risks and return.
Well, any powered system should have an effective manual back-up. I have a single electric winch that is also manual, and I could easily live without it if it failed.

The windlass is an issue if it breaks, but if I really had to, I could buoy and ditch the chain, and retrieve it under better conditions. (By the way, you should always have a piece of line connecting the bitter end of your chain to the boat so that you can do this-don't shackle the chain to the boat).

But, if you're not comfortable with the electrics/hydraulics, don't get a boat that has them. No worries.

For our part, we've had no issues, and I love the electric winch. That winch, by the way, has done 3 Atlantic crossings, one trip to Hawaii, 2 trips from Seattle to Mexico, one trip from Pacific Mexico to Newfoundland, another from FL to Newfoundland.... With no maintenance but greasing the thing.

You get the idea. But, to each their own.
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:07   #266
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Yes, four vertical 6ft long lightweight battens which do make a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Excellent; I'm sure you've noticed a huge difference.

I was reluctant to try the battens after reading tons of horror stories, but in the end I chose to trust my sailmaker, and that was a right decision.
First time I'm hearing a positive story about vertical battens and in-mast furling, but I've only recently started thinking about replacing my worn mainsail. I inherited it with 4-5 round, vertical battens and was told it was problematic for my Hood Stoway in-mast furler. I never had much of a problem with that, but after repeated hassles with battens tearing through their pockets and needing to be removed at sea, I removed all of them and had the mainsail re-cut to compensate. Has never really been right, could never surmount the leech flutter, and at this point it's an old sail that's pretty bagged out. After reading your posts I think I will revisit the issue with a sailmaker when the time comes.

Ken -- do you remove your mainsail from the boat for your 6 mos. of winter lay-up? I suppose removing the battens add time & hassle to that chore, but with in-mast furling at least it doesn't need to be done that often.
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:28   #267
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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First time I'm hearing a positive story about vertical battens and in-mast furling, but I've only recently started thinking about replacing my worn mainsail. I inherited it with 4-5 round, vertical battens and was told it was problematic for my Hood Stoway in-mast furler. I never had much of a problem with that, but after repeated hassles with battens tearing through their pockets and needing to be removed at sea, I removed all of them and had the mainsail re-cut to compensate. Has never really been right, could never surmount the leech flutter, and at this point it's an old sail that's pretty bagged out. After reading your posts I think I will revisit the issue with a sailmaker when the time comes.

Ken -- do you remove your mainsail from the boat for your 6 mos. of winter lay-up? I suppose removing the battens add time & hassle to that chore, but with in-mast furling at least it doesn't need to be done that often.
The battens are no hassle at all to remove or replace when we remove all of our sails at the end of the season for 6 months in the slip. I did have one somehow rip out of it's pocket and escape vertically during the night a year ago, so most of this season we only had four of the battens installed.
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Old 26-10-2017, 13:32   #268
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

What do folks here think of the electric headsail furlers? Anyone have experience with them?

See in this video from 0:30 - 1:00

Push button furling from the helm. Manual backup using a winch though you have to go to the foredeck for that.

I've noticed these on some of the boat reviews for 50'+ yachts. How long before these become more common? Would you want one?

Eliminates the furling line run back to the cockpit. My wife struggles with that sometimes. I've had line overrides in the furling drum. I've had charter boats with badly maintained drums to the point I had to winch the jib *out*. Seems to me this would eliminate those issues and potentially be more reliable, not less.

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Old 26-10-2017, 14:20   #269
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

We have a Reckmann hydraulic furling system which eliminates having an electric motor anywhere near the wettest place on the boat. That electric furler is going to be splashed all day long with salt water. Although I'm sure Reckmann has sorted out any problems with their electric motor seals, hydraulic just seems like a better idea.
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Old 26-10-2017, 16:16   #270
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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We have a Reckmann hydraulic furling system which eliminates having an electric motor anywhere near the wettest place on the boat. That electric furler is going to be splashed all day long with salt water. Although I'm sure Reckmann has sorted out any problems with their electric motor seals, hydraulic just seems like a better idea.

Thanks Kenomac. I assumed it was electric, but you're right hydraulic makes more sense. How do you like it? Does it make it easier to manage your headsails?

- Joe
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