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Old 23-10-2017, 06:38   #181
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

I'm surprised by how many times this needs to be repeated on this forum... parts for larger boats cost the same as parts for smaller boats. Proportionally, they are more expensive on a smaller size boat.

The chandlery does not know or care what size boat the pump, toilet, hose, line, rope, electronic gadget, refrigeration unit, you name it, that the item is going onto.... at the cash register, the cost is the same.

It's a myth that keeps being repeated by the owners of smaller, older boats to rationalize their purchase.
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Old 23-10-2017, 06:54   #182
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I'm surprised by how many times this needs to be repeated on this forum... parts for larger boats cost the same as parts for smaller boats. Proportionally, they are more expensive on a smaller size boat.

The chandlery does not know or care what size boat the pump, toilet, hose, line, rope, electronic gadget, refrigeration unit, you name it, that the item is going onto.... at the cash register, the cost is the same.

It's a myth that keeps being repeated by the owners of smaller, older boats to rationalize their purchase.
Unless of course you're talking sails or cordage or gear or gallons of paint or insurance or labor to maintain a larger boat or gallons of fuel burnt per hour of run time,,, but other than that it is the same.
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Old 23-10-2017, 08:03   #183
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I'm surprised by how many times this needs to be repeated on this forum... parts for larger boats cost the same as parts for smaller boats. Proportionally, they are more expensive on a smaller size boat.

The chandlery does not know or care what size boat the pump, toilet, hose, line, rope, electronic gadget, refrigeration unit, you name it, that the item is going onto.... at the cash register, the cost is the same.

It's a myth that keeps being repeated by the owners of smaller, older boats to rationalize their purchase.
Except, larger vessels have in general larger sized units of everything. Anchors....Winches, pulleys, etc etc... SOME consumables are the same but to generalise in this manner is not correct. When it comes to running gear, sails and other things, there is no comparison... It's a myth that keeps being repeated by the owners of larger boats to rationalize their purchase...

Its not merely the size of the vessel that the cost is based on or else big boats would just a tad larger on the wallet and we would all be having one...
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Old 23-10-2017, 08:35   #184
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Except, larger vessels have in general larger sized units of everything. Anchors....Winches, pulleys, etc etc... SOME consumables are the same but to generalise in this manner is not correct. When it comes to running gear, sails and other things, there is no comparison... It's a myth that keeps being repeated by the owners of larger boats to rationalize their purchase...

Its not merely the size of the vessel that the cost is based on or else big boats would just a tad larger on the wallet and we would all be having one...
The statement above is another falacy IMHO.

As I remember when we purchased our boat, it came with two "anchors... winches, pulleys, etc, etc" and even many spares. The boat was purchased as a complete boat... not in pieces which needed to be purchased separately. The "anchors...winches, pulleys, etc, etc..." on our boat are of a quality which will most likely never require replacement during my lifetime.

The consumables such as pumps, filters etc, cost the same as on smaller boats and on even larger boats. We've owned an O'day 20, Hunter 450 and now an Oyster 53, and I can tell you with certainty that the Hunter was slightly more expensive to own on a monthly cost basis than the Oyster excluding the original cost of aquiring the boat. In fact, since the Oyster is 100% self-contained and can spend six months in anchorages, it's actually quite a bit cheaper to own since we don't have any mooring fees during the six month time period. Comparing Sailorboy's monthly budget for his Hunter 410 which usually surpasses $3000, compare our working monthly budget that normally comes in less than $1500 on an Oyster 53.

It does make one wonder why more people don't opt for the larger size? Or maybe they're starting to realize the advantages. "Size DOES matter."
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Old 23-10-2017, 08:41   #185
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Another falacy IMHO.

As I remember when we purchased our boat, it came with two "anchors... winches, pulleys, etc, etc" and even many spares. The boat was purchased as a complete boat... not in pieces which needed to be purchased separately. The "anchors...winches, pulleys, etc, etc..." on our boat are of a quality which will most likely never require replacement during my lifetime.

The consumables such as pumps, filters etc, cost the same as on smaller boats and on even larger boats. We've owned an O'day 20, Hunter 450 and now an Oyster 53, and I can tell you with certainty that the Hunter was slightly more expensive to own on a monthly cost basis than the Oyster excluding the original cost of aquiring the boat. In fact, since the Oyster is 100% self-contained and can spend six months in anchorages, it's actually quite a bit cheaper to own sice we don't have any mooring fees during the six month time period.
I have the same experience with our 60ft ex trawler.
Boat had loads of spares when bought and in the last 18 mths we have been in a marina once.
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Old 23-10-2017, 11:17   #186
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

I think that the issue at hand here is that we hear (often) on CF and elsewhere that 'costs rise exponentially/dramatically' with size. This is nonsense.

From my point of view, our 55 costs the same as the 44 it replaced, and slightly more than the 36.

Do marina costs rise exponentially? Nope.
Pumps, engines, heads, hoses, electronics? Nope
Anchors, chain? Nope. I bought a new anchor recently, and it cost about 40% more than one for a 40 footer, so that added a few hundred to the bill-not a big deal.

Ok, it takes an extra gallon of paint for the bottom. Ok, the boat uses 2liters/hour more under power than the 36'. So what?

I don't spend any more time working on this boat than I did any other-probably less. So, I'm not sure the labor argument holds water.

The one place I will agree is that everything associated with the actual sailing of the boat is MUCH more expensive. But, still not exponentially so.

That's my only gripe. Sails, rigging, etc. Everything else is pretty much the same.

Of course, if you decide to put an ice maker, washing machine, dishwasher, dive compressor, tanning bed, sauna, and a jacuzzi in your big boat, then costs will of course rise. But, these are personal choices-not an automatic with a bigger boat.
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Old 23-10-2017, 11:38   #187
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

We seem to be exploding a few myths, yet a 33', or 25', can be equally self-contained if finances are limited. Come haul-out time, cost will likely be proportional to length. New bottom paint proportional to length squared, or cubed, or LxBxD? How long do sails last: cost of new sails proportional to displacement, or length squared?

Purchase cost is no doubt the biggest factor for most, but not the only cost to worry about. Sailorboy spends what he can afford, not just what his boat costs.
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Old 23-10-2017, 12:27   #188
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Purchase cost is no doubt the biggest factor for most, but not the only cost to worry about. Sailorboy spends what he can afford, not just what his boat costs.
The reality for someone like Sailorboy who's full time is probably closer to the opposite. Like most whose boat is also their home, he probably has to spend what his boat costs to maintain regardless, and then adjusts his budget for when to spend on more discretionary items/upgrades to make it all affordable overall.

I'd guess that if you swapped your boat out for one of similar quality & condition but larger, your greatest additional costs might be the inevitable amount of refitting/upgrading you do on your new boat. I have nothing to compare, but from what I'm reading here the add'l costs of larger boats in general are not as high as what I and others have been led to believe. But the initial costs of getting into any new boat -- regardless of size -- could be steep.
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Old 23-10-2017, 12:33   #189
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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I built a 64ft. steel sailboat and would get the "too big" comment from time to time. My reply usually would be that if I told you I lived in a 60ft housetrailer you wouldn't think it was too big would you. Not a whole lot of difference.
Ha, ha!

Love it.

I've had land people compare my boat to a "giant RV".

What's funny is that this is not devoid of truth.
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Old 23-10-2017, 12:44   #190
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
We seem to be exploding a few myths, yet a 33', or 25', can be equally self-contained if finances are limited. Come haul-out time, cost will likely be proportional to length. New bottom paint proportional to length squared, or cubed, or LxBxD? How long do sails last: cost of new sails proportional to displacement, or length squared?

Purchase cost is no doubt the biggest factor for most, but not the only cost to worry about. Sailorboy spends what he can afford, not just what his boat costs.
I pay 1000 euros for six months time in a fresh water, first class marina in Italy, which is better than any I could find here in New England, and equals out to 150 euros per month electric and water included. In California, we paid $750 per month for our Hunter 450 for comparable service, but there we also had to pay $70 per month for bottom cleaning and $100 per month for twice monthly boat washing due to all the soot in the air. So our total seven years ago for a 45ft boat was $925 per month not including annual California property tax which would have added another $500 per month. So $2000 per month for a 45ft boat and now $150 per month for a 53 footer.

$18,000 per year for the 45ft boat just for mooring and property tax.

1000 euros ($1,200) per year for our 53 ft boat for mooring. No property tax required.

That's quite a difference.
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Old 23-10-2017, 12:51   #191
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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That's quite a difference.
You are correct, unfortunately you are comparing apples and oranges. Its not the locations but the size of yacht. Plonk a 33 ft yacht next to your gin palace and see what the difference is.

Do you drink Gin?

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Old 23-10-2017, 12:52   #192
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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I pay 1000 euros for six months time in a fresh water, first class marina in Italy, which is better than any I could find here in New England, and equals out to 150 euros per month electric and water included. In California, we paid $750 per month for our Hunter 450 for comparable service, but there we also had to pay $70 per month for bottom cleaning and $100 per month for twice monthly boat washing due to all the soot in the air. So our total seven years ago for a 45ft boat was $925 per month not including annual California property tax which would have added another $1000 per month. So $2000 per month for a 45ft boat and now $150 per month for a 53 footer.

That's quite a difference.
CA was hitting you for $12,000 per year for property tax on a Hunter 45? They only charged me $600 per year for a Cabo Rico 36. Are you remembering this right, Ken? Just curious.
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Old 23-10-2017, 12:56   #193
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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CA was hitting you for $12,000 per year for property tax on a Hunter 45? They only charged me $600 per year for a Cabo Rico 36. Are you remembering this right, Ken? Just curious.
No, I made an error, please see post correction. $4,000 taxes and municipal fees then, and would be more like $5,000 now.
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Old 23-10-2017, 13:04   #194
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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I think that the issue at hand here is that we hear (often) on CF and elsewhere that 'costs rise exponentially/dramatically' with size. This is nonsense.

From my point of view, our 55 costs the same as the 44 it replaced, and slightly more than the 36.

Do marina costs rise exponentially? Nope.
Pumps, engines, heads, hoses, electronics? Nope
Anchors, chain? Nope. I bought a new anchor recently, and it cost about 40% more than one for a 40 footer, so that added a few hundred to the bill-not a big deal.

Ok, it takes an extra gallon of paint for the bottom. Ok, the boat uses 2liters/hour more under power than the 36'. So what?

I don't spend any more time working on this boat than I did any other-probably less. So, I'm not sure the labor argument holds water.

The one place I will agree is that everything associated with the actual sailing of the boat is MUCH more expensive. But, still not exponentially so.

That's my only gripe. Sails, rigging, etc. Everything else is pretty much the same.

Of course, if you decide to put an ice maker, washing machine, dishwasher, dive compressor, tanning bed, sauna, and a jacuzzi in your big boat, then costs will of course rise. But, these are personal choices-not an automatic with a bigger boat.
I agree completely.

Truly a myth about the "exponential" increase in costs.

As you point out, this is actually true only concerning sails and rigging. Sails go up really exponentially, because as they get bigger, than have to be stronger at the same time.

But sail area varies more as a function of displacement, not length.

Marina cost usually a linear function of length (at least for monos) -- a bargain.

Bigger boat is also easier to work on -- access is invariably much better. I still have scars from getting to the engine on my last boat.

Cost of antifoul and bottom work should be a linear function of displacement for boats of the same hull form.
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Old 23-10-2017, 13:10   #195
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Re: My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

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Of course, if you decide to put an ice maker, washing machine, dishwasher, dive compressor, tanning bed, sauna, and a jacuzzi in your big boat, then costs will of course rise. But, these are personal choices-not an automatic with a bigger boat.
Au contraire, these are not options on a smaller yacht, unless you use the yacht bucket for washing machine, diswasher and jacuzzi

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