My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

[Tingum]

I have often heard that your bow is too close to the stern, but never the opposite! As for guests if you do not have two staterooms with ensuite heads then guest are for drinks only. Guess I am just an old sailor with too many sea miles !

[charliehows]

Whenever I have to lift my boat onto the hardstand, it's way too big – 'cos they charge by the foot. Damn thing also feels a bit too big every time I get into proximity of a dock, jetty, mooring field, or a tight anchorage – so in those situations I apply the same strategy as an ocean liner – proceed slowly and in a controlled manner. As for handling the rig – well bad luck if shes a square-rigged clipper, you wont do too well single-handing, but most modern boats use a range of power assistance devices which dont require a huge amount of strength or skill to deploy.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Two people on an Oyster 70 wouldn't be a problem, if I could afford it I'd make the switch. Including the davits, the boat is closer to 80ft.

The big issue of course is the weight of the sails when comes time to remove and fold them at the end of the season.

Our rig is about the same size as an Oyster 70. The main has to be broken down, folded and bricked ashore. Headsails can be handled on deck, kites are typically socked for the season but require a large plot of ground to fold and brick at seasons end. All sails are handled/stowed with halyards except for the 3/4 oz. kites, they weigh under 100#s and can be lifted out of the sailbin and brought to deck without the assistance of a halyard. It's all the same you just learn different techniques to deal with the weight. Mostly it's just my wife and I sailing the boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by TJ D

That's interesting. I replaced a conventional 3 blade with a max prop on a previous boat, and found that the prop walk was diminshed.

I've only had this boat a year, prop came with it. I'm planning on altering the pitch (reverse) next haul out. Maybe able to do it in the water? Haven't looked into that yet. Not important at the moment as I won't see a marina until the south Africa, but next year.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I've only had this boat a year, prop came with it. I'm planning on altering the pitch (reverse) next haul out. Maybe able to do it in the water? Haven't looked into that yet. Not important at the moment as I won't see a marina until the south Africa, but next year.

I can't remember when max prop changed to 'in the water' pitch adjustment. Probably 15 years ago or so. I'm not sure if all models have it, but if your boat's/prop's newish, there's a good chance.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by TJ D

I can't remember when max prop changed to 'in the water' pitch adjustment. Probably 15 years ago or so. I'm not sure if all models have it, but if your boat's/prop's newish, there's a good chance.

It's 2009 I believe, so most likely can.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by atoll

... there is a direct correlation between the boats length in feet to windspeed in knots ... as to the boats ability to cope with the sea state in tidal waters.

ie a 25 ft yacht starts getting out of its comfort zone after 25 knots, 30 ft in 30 knots, 40 ft in 40 knots etc
.....
open ocean conditions are not the same as tidal or wind over current conditions that i have based this observation on ...

That's an interesting truism (no doubt simplified for clarity).

Ignoring cost constraints, I personally have no desire to go beyond 45' max (and 2m/6' draft) for this couple. Beyond that, the only advantage I see is heaving-to a little later, likewise streaming a drogue, so nothing significant gained. Focusing on length alone, is there any advantage I'm not aware of, say, going from 55 to 70', in worst case say, crossing Biscay or South Australian Bight on a bad day? Or is it chalk-n-cheese?

[barnakiel]

To me, the 55' vs 70' question is just like 25' vs 40' question. If the designs are alike, the 70' is by a HUGE margin more comfortable, faster, safer, and desirable option.

Not to take anything away from the 55' boat that can be a great choice and perfectly safe by her own virtue.

b.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by TJ D

It's late here in Alaska, and I was just reflecting on our interactions with our fellow sailors during our latest cruise. Now, we were in Europe, where even 30 footers are commonly seen with 4-5 crew, so perhaps this explains it.

Ok, I know this has been beat to death, but I've had a heck of a run of people over the summer who have passed by our boat stop and tell us, with great certainty, that our boat is simply too big for 2 people. Maybe even dangerous!!

I'm really having a hard time getting my head around this kind of thinking. Now, I understand that back in the time of say, the Hiscocks, when sails were made of cotton, winches were crap or absent, and everything was done by brute force-things were different. ....

I find this statments odd in what regards Europe particularly the med where most european boats sail.

The European market tendency on the last years have been for bigger and bigger boats and it is not by accident that you see mass production brands increasing the size of its bigger boat.

Now bigger Beneteau is a 62ft, Bavaria a 57ft, Hanse a 67ft, Jeanneau a 64ft, Dufour a 56ft. This means that there are many wanting to buy this size of boat. They are mass production boats and if the market was small they would not went to those sizes, as it was the case on past decades.

Most of the boats are sailed by a couple, sometimes with guests but generally guests are not sailors. Most European cruisers if they could chose would opt for a size between 45ft and 55ft and that is probably the main market in what regards cruising boats in Europe, the size where we see most new models appearing on the market.

So what is all that talk about 30ft cruisers having in europe a crew of 4 or 5? and about sailors saying that the boat is too big for you when the average size of most new cruisers is not far from that size?

Unless you are talking about racing or going fast but that is a completely different affair. There is a famous French racing Transat that is raced solo or duo and where all boats can compete providing they have a IRC between 0.950 et 1.075. On a cruising boat like a Bavaria or a Beneteau a 1.075 can be a pretty big boat but the boats that go faster are fast 33 to 36 ft boats for the simple reason the it is much more easy for a two crew to explore the sailing potential of a small boat than the one of a bigger one.

Cruisers went for bigger and bigger boats for the same reason that they went for bigger and bigger houses through the last 20 years, more living space, the same reason why cruising condo cats are popular today.

Of course those bigger cruisers are designed in a way that makes them possible to be sailed by a couple, with a help of a lot of mechanical and hydraulic help. I know that you said that you only have an electric winch but that is not the case with most boats on the market over 55ft, even mass production ones.

[TJ D]

B

Originally Posted by Polux

I find this statments odd in what regards Europe particularly the med where most european boats sail.

The European market tendency on the last years have been for bigger and bigger boats and it is not by accident that you see mass production brands increasing the size of its bigger boat.

Now bigger Beneteau is a 62ft, Bavaria a 57ft, Hanse a 67ft, Jeanneau a 64ft, Dufour a 56ft. This means that there are many wanting to buy this size of boat. They are mass production boats and if the market was small they would not went to those sizes, as it was the case on past decades.

Most of the boats are sailed by a couple, sometimes with guests but generally guests are not sailors. Most European cruisers if they could chose would opt for a size between 45ft and 55ft and that is probably the main market in what regards cruising boats in Europe, the size where we see most new models appearing on the market.

So what is all that talk about 30ft cruisers having in europe a crew of 4 or 5? and about sailors saying that the boat is too big for you when the average size of most new cruisers is not far from that size?

Unless you are talking about racing or going fast but that is a completely different affair. There is a famous French racing Transat that is raced solo or duo and where all boats can compete providing they have a IRC between 0.950 et 1.075. On a cruising boat like a Bavaria or a Beneteau a 1.075 can be a pretty big boat but the boats that go faster are fast 33 to 36 ft boats for the simple reason the it is much more easy for a two crew to explore the sailing potential of a small boat than the one of a bigger one.

Cruisers went for bigger and bigger boats for the same reason that they went for bigger and bigger houses through the last 20 years, more living space, the same reason why cruising condo cats are popular today.

Of course those bigger cruisers are designed in a way that makes them possible to be sailed by a couple, with a help of a lot of mechanical and hydraulic help. I know that you said that you only have an electric winch but that is not the case with most boats on the market over 55ft, even mass production ones.

Well, Polux, I sure hope that you're not telling me that I'm a liar.

Our cruise was in Northern Europe, specifically from the UK to Gibraltar. More often than not, we were one of, if not the biggest, sailboats in the marina/anchorage.

If you've read the thread, which would be an achievement by now, it has been noted that since we went south, boats have gotten bigger on the average. If we ever have the misfortune to pull into one of the Med marinas where the megayachts congregate-they'll put us at the dinghy dock. I get it.

But, that still doesn't change the fact that there were many, many times in Ireland, the UK, France, and Spain where these comments were made.

You may decide to believe me or not, but it most certainly did happen. Often.

TJ

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

That's an interesting truism (no doubt simplified for clarity).

Ignoring cost constraints, I personally have no desire to go beyond 45' max (and 2m/6' draft) for this couple. Beyond that, the only advantage I see is heaving-to a little later, likewise streaming a drogue, so nothing significant gained. Focusing on length alone, is there any advantage I'm not aware of, say, going from 55 to 70', in worst case say, crossing Biscay or South Australian Bight on a bad day? Or is it chalk-n-cheese?

From a pure sailing perspective, Speed is the most obvious advantage. I think that the ability to sail fast does a great deal for the ability to weather route. I have a lot more control on the bigger, faster boat when it comes to this than I ever did on my previous smaller, slower boats.

Of course, when you've got a faster boat, you're exposed for much less time, too.

A long waterline does a lot to reduce pitching, too, generally speaking.

But, in terms of ultimate seaworthiness, I think that there are way too many variables in design and construction to make a blanket statement.

That said, though-if everything goes south on the weather- all things being equal on the quality of the boat- I'll take the bigger one all day long.

[Kenomac]

It's also much easier and more comfortable to do something like this on a larger boat with 100hp.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_f4Wf0qDdbs

[atoll]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

That's an interesting truism (no doubt simplified for clarity).

Ignoring cost constraints, I personally have no desire to go beyond 45' max (and 2m/6' draft) for this couple. Beyond that, the only advantage I see is heaving-to a little later, likewise streaming a drogue, so nothing significant gained. Focusing on length alone, is there any advantage I'm not aware of, say, going from 55 to 70', in worst case say, crossing Biscay or South Australian Bight on a bad day? Or is it chalk-n-cheese?

if you are looking for a boat capable of taking you around the world in reasonable comfort and speed something in the 42-45 ft is ideal.
sailing in the right season ,and in tropical lattitudes it would be quite unusual to have to sail in sustained winds of over 35knots for any length of time,15-25 would be the norm for normal trade winds.

even out of the tropics during the summer 45 knots might be experinced as fronts pass,but generally only for as long as it takes for the trough or front to pass ~12-24 hrs

sea state in shallow or tidal waters aside, a vessel that size should also have no problems coping with reasonable prudence.

the bigger the boat the better its sea keeping abilities! you often see 300ft ships anchored in open water,200ft behind a headland,100ft inside the port limits etc

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Polux

So what is all that talk about 30ft cruisers having in europe a crew of 4 or 5? and about sailors saying that the boat is too big for you when the average size of most new cruisers is not far from that size

Oh they are there and we seem to attract them every time we visit France and the Channel Islands. Often French flagged, they appear late in the evening after harbour staff have gone home and disappear at first light. You see whole families and 3 generations on board 25-30ft yachts. They moor up to us because we often have a space on the outside due to the harbour staff not allowing really big yachts to tie up along side us, thankfully.

Whilst you might question their ethics of staying a night and disappearing early in the morning having topped up the water and taken a shower ashore, it is nice to see whole families enjoying their holidays on small, cheap yachts and making the most of the opportunities.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It's also much easier and more comfortable to do something like this on a larger boat with 100hp.

Oh ain't that the truth. The smaller yacht the yacht the more effort has to be put into planning what is essential and what is just nice to have. I am willing to bet you and TJ have probably managed to fill >50ft yachts with stuff. However, a 30ft yacht probably has a quarter of the storage space available and much lower load carrying capacity. So very easy to pile it all on without realising the error.

We certainly did in the early days, but now approach the issue with a religious zeal about removing stuff unless absolutely essential or makes a real improvement to quality of life on board. To the point once we really got into solar we sold the Honda genny. That might only be 20kgs but it freed up a large cockpit locker space for the liferaft. Spare anchor yes, but a light weight Fortress. Spare water yes, but only 5L and so on.

50ft> of yacht would be very nice but the running costs in Southern England would be ruinous or the boat not being used as much.

Pete